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Brauner Phanthera vs Gefell UMT 70 S

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Brauner Phanthera vs Gefell UMT 70 S

Postby steve355 » Thu Jan 13, 2011 12:56 am

After moaning like mad on here that I can't seem to audition the mics I want, I went to KMR this afternoon and they were super-helpful, loaning me 2 mics for the weekend without a thought. And that's a great way to test them, cos I can try them out in a mix, which is all that counts. What a great shop!

A really interesting match. At first the Gefell (in Cardioid mode) had me for it's smoothness, then the Brauner edged ahead, it just has a loveliness and clarity that is difficult to match. But once I started recording some vocals in a couple of mixes, suddenly the Brauner wouldn't settle down, seemed brittle in the upper mids and after a while it became clear that on my voice at least the Gefell is way superior. It has lots of mid range detail and does not have a harsh top end or inflated bottom. Dare I say it, it has an M7 capsule and it really seems to have that classic heritage tone (YMMV of course).

Only problem is it is slightly sibilant (which Is the problem I've been trying to solve.)

Any other suggestions welcome. I can't audition a Bock cos they are only in Liverpool. There are no TLM193s in the UK. Perhaps a TLM67....
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Re: Brauner Phanthera vs Gefell UMT 70 S

Postby Bob Bickerton » Thu Jan 13, 2011 4:29 am

Interesting stuff. I auditioned an M71s cardioid only version of the UMT 70S and really quite enjoyed it, and would be tempted to buy a UMT70S at some point in the future.

I would put the M71 closer to a TLM103 than a TLM193, which is really rather neutral and may well solve your sibilance issue. I also auditioned a TLM67 and would place it somewhere between the TLM193 and the TLM103, in frequency response, but somehow I didn't enjoy as much as either! Maybe a bit too much emphasis on the mids.

It's ridiculous that there are no TLM193s in the UK! A TLM170 would give you a very good idea of how the 193 would behave (in cardioid mode).

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Re: Brauner Phanthera vs Gefell UMT 70 S

Postby Jack Ruston » Thu Jan 13, 2011 4:51 am

KMR are awesome guys. I've had amazing customer service there over the years. Now you have to suffer the agony of choice!

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Re: Brauner Phanthera vs Gefell UMT 70 S

Postby matt keen » Thu Jan 13, 2011 10:06 am

steve355 wrote:After moaning like mad on here that I can't seem to audition the mics I want, I went to KMR this afternoon and they were super-helpful, loaning me 2 mics for the weekend without a thought. And that's a great way to test them, cos I can try them out in a mix, which is all that counts. What a great shop!

A really interesting match. At first the Gefell (in Cardioid mode) had me for it's smoothness, then the Brauner edged ahead, it just has a loveliness and clarity that is difficult to match. But once I started recording some vocals in a couple of mixes, suddenly the Brauner wouldn't settle down, seemed brittle in the upper mids and after a while it became clear that on my voice at least the Gefell is way superior. It has lots of mid range detail and does not have a harsh top end or inflated bottom. Dare I say it, it has an M7 capsule and it really seems to have that classic heritage tone (YMMV of course).

Only problem is it is slightly sibilant (which Is the problem I've been trying to solve.)

Any other suggestions welcome. I can't audition a Bock cos they are only in Liverpool. There are no TLM193s in the UK. Perhaps a TLM67....

Not saying you re wrong - but I bought and use the UMT70 precisely cos of the lack of sibilance - what pre amps are you going through or could it be something else in the chain?

Interested to know either way.
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Re: Brauner Phanthera vs Gefell UMT 70 S

Postby steve355 » Thu Jan 13, 2011 10:27 am


You should hear me on a properly sibilant mic!!! Sorry, I should be clear, the mic is very smooth and not hyped, it is my voice that is sibilant.

The chain is straight into a fireface 800 via it's preamps. I have other pres but that seemed a decent way to test these two mics.

I expect only something like a TLM193 or a ribbon would cure it. And the answer will be a compromise, to some degree I'll just have to learn to sing differently.

I am pretty hooked on the Gefell though, a lovely mic. Will try omni mode with upright piano later.
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Re: Brauner Phanthera vs Gefell UMT 70 S

Postby RegressiveRock » Wed Jan 19, 2011 10:27 am

steve355 wrote:
I'll just have to learn to sing differently.

This, Steve, can be an important point: often missed. The most critical part of any recording chain is the source!

Glad you are liking the UMT70S and as I have mentioned many times in the past, KMR are the place to go for proper customer service.

Nonetheless you should be completely satisfied that the UMT70S will work for you before buying it!

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Re: Brauner Phanthera vs Gefell UMT 70 S

Postby steve355 » Wed Jan 19, 2011 11:06 am

RegressiveRock wrote:
steve355 wrote:
I'll just have to learn to sing differently.

This, Steve, can be an important point: often missed. The most critical part of any recording chain is the source!

Glad you are liking the UMT70S and as I have mentioned many times in the past, KMR are the place to go for proper customer service.

Nonetheless you should be completely satisfied that the UMT70S will work for you before buying it!

Reg

Reg

As I said I think that the Brauner vs the Gefell was an ideal comparison match - one of the best of the "hyped" mics vs a mic with a classic capsule. To my ears, the Brauner has a raised low end (which is easy to eq out) and a slightly crisper top end. But critically, it seems that just below the presence peak is a "dip" or slight lack of definition compared to the Gefell which means it somehow sits on top of the mix rather than in it. On other sources it will vary no doubt.

I don't think I am going to do better than the Gefell. It is possible a ribbon might deal with the sibilance/harshness issue slightly better but the really detailed mids of the Gefell mean that you are not relying so much on the top end for definition, which is exactly what I need.

And it has that classic sound, to my ears anyway. And it is extremely versatile.

The only weird thing was that the KMR guy said it is usually a broadcast microphone, not usually bought for singing vocals, and that it was a "boring" sound compared to the Brauner.

Well, I am pretty much sold, I'm going to KMR this afternoon to place an order. Wife will kill me! 8-)

Thanks for all your help Reg, in finding the right mic for me!!

Cheers

Steve
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Re: Brauner Phanthera vs Gefell UMT 70 S

Postby RegressiveRock » Wed Jan 19, 2011 11:42 am

A lot of people like the Phantera as a vocal mike. However, I'd not describe the UMT70S as 'boring', merely 'classic' and with your sibilance issues far less likely to exacerabte them.

Frankly, it's the passing on down the value chain of this ethic that 'hype is good' that leads to the kind of issues you were experiencing with your old M-Audio unit.

Good luck with your purchase. ;)

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Re: Brauner Phanthera vs Gefell UMT 70 S

Postby steve355 » Wed Jan 19, 2011 12:05 pm

RegressiveRock wrote:A lot of people like the Phantera as a vocal mike.

If I had auditioned them side to side in a shop I would have bought the Brauner. No question. I spent my first hours with these two being pretty certain that it was the one. It was only when I did some basic tracking and played with them in the mix that the strength of the Gefell became clear. An interesting learning experience.
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Re: Brauner Phanthera vs Gefell UMT 70 S

Postby RegressiveRock » Wed Jan 19, 2011 12:34 pm

steve355 wrote:
RegressiveRock wrote:A lot of people like the Phantera as a vocal mike.

If I had auditioned them side to side in a shop I would have bought the Brauner. No question. I spent my first hours with these two being pretty certain that it was the one. It was only when I did some basic tracking and played with them in the mix that the strength of the Gefell became clear. An interesting learning experience.

Again: an often missed point! ;)
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Re: Brauner Phanthera vs Gefell UMT 70 S

Postby narcoman » Fri Jan 21, 2011 12:09 am

Absolutely. But you've highlighted the problem of comparing two mic's that are very different! Cuz I bet you want both really !! :)
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Re: Brauner Phanthera vs Gefell UMT 70 S

Postby Reiknir » Sat Jan 22, 2011 2:25 pm

steve355 wrote:, to some degree I'll just have to learn to sing differently.

Not as difficult as you might think, sibilance is usually caused by your tongue lifting too much which causes the energy to fall on you front teeth and back, creating a standing wave

just lowering your tongue position a little might do wonders ..... of course if you have front teeth like a bunny nothing might be of help
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