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Nuisance neighbour evidence..Need some recording advice

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Re: Nuisance neighbour evidence..Need some recording advice

Postby Hugh Robjohns » Tue Mar 27, 2012 6:15 pm

feline1 wrote: This is an excellent point - but conversely, will the court have a PA rig with bass bins and subwoofers capable of reproducing sound down to 10Hz ? :round1:

;) No, of course not... but if you don't record it you can't measure it! :headbang:

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Re: Nuisance neighbour evidence..Need some recording advice

Postby Hugh Robjohns » Tue Mar 27, 2012 6:23 pm

techmonkey wrote: Aye, I've been really tempted lately to just walk away and rent private, but my friends and family say I'd be mad to give up a secure tenancy and the right to buy with a 40% discount.

What price sanity and a good night's sleep? In any case, if you buy and then sell you'll be legaly obliged to inform any potential purchasers of your on-going and long-lasting noise nuisance problems... and who'd want to buy your discounted flat then?

I think I'd either be asking the council for an alternative flat, or just cutting your losses and renting privately elsewhere.

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Re: Nuisance neighbour evidence..Need some recording advice

Postby hollowsun » Tue Mar 27, 2012 6:34 pm

techmonkey wrote:When I mentioned I had CCTV and was gathering evidence for a legal action against them (the Council) they tried to take legal action against ME to stop me using CCTV!
Yup.

My pensioner in-laws had exactly the same problem....

Being harassed by hoodlums who smashed windows, were in and out of their garden, vandalism, verbal abuse, abuse from their ignorant parents ... 10 year olds hanging around the streets at 11am on White Lightning, that kind of thing ... you can guess the type.

Had the police round who said they can't do anything ... they need evidence, to see an offence being committed (even though these louts and their families were known to the Plod, they couldn't do anything) ... so the in-laws installed CCTV...

And were told it would be inadmissible as evidence and infringes the perps' right to privacy so it had to be switched off.

The council were even more hopeless and even accused the in-laws of provoking the little tosswits. It's all upside down and mad ... like Htrae (or Planet Bizzaro) in the DC comics where everything's arse backwards

I had to chuckle at you being told the various council departments will work together on this...

That'll be a f'ckin' first!! :roll:

You have my every sympathy, techmonkey.
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Re: Nuisance neighbour evidence..Need some recording advice

Postby Yago » Tue Mar 27, 2012 6:51 pm

hollowsun wrote: ... so the in-laws installed CCTV...

And were told it would be inadmissible as evidence and infringes the perps' right to privacy so it had to be switched off.

Good UK Plod , they love to get this law wrong as it helps them break the law .

In UK if you are in a public place , you have no right to privacy .
So well known that most photographers carry a copy of the laws around with them , and Amateur Photographer (UK magazine) had a give-away of a lens cleaning cloth with this law printed on it !
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Re: Nuisance neighbour evidence..Need some recording advice

Postby ramthelinefeed » Tue Mar 27, 2012 7:03 pm

techmonkey wrote:
I actually had it out with EVH a big row with their senior guy who was a real Mr Know-All and one of those "don't question me" types. He tried to make out that their procedural rules on when they can come out, how long you can record for, over what duration etc, are all rules set down by central government under the Environmental Health legislation. When I told him they weren't and asked him to show me which parts of the Act stipulated those restrictions, he couldn't. Then he changed his tune to, "oh we know what the Courts will accept as evidence, we have to do how we think the case will succeed else its a waste of time and money". Utterly arrogant! Surely its for the judge to determine that.

Yeah, I am familiar with the type :)
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Re: Nuisance neighbour evidence..Need some recording advice

Postby Jeff Ling » Tue Mar 27, 2012 7:06 pm

If you have an iPhone or something similar, there are a few free spl or dB meter apps that might work. I've got several and they work great for me.
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Re: Nuisance neighbour evidence..Need some recording advice

Postby nathanscribe » Tue Mar 27, 2012 7:19 pm

Hugh Robjohns wrote:
techmonkey wrote: Aye, I've been really tempted lately to just walk away and rent private, but my friends and family say I'd be mad to give up a secure tenancy and the right to buy with a 40% discount.

What price sanity and a good night's sleep? In any case, if you buy and then sell you'll be legaly obliged to inform any potential purchasers of your on-going and long-lasting noise nuisance problems... and who'd want to buy your discounted flat then?

I think I'd either be asking the council for an alternative flat, or just cutting your losses and renting privately elsewhere.

Hugh

My thoughts also. If there is an alternative, why put your energies and money and time into battling some cretin who clearly does not give the slightest t*ss what anybody thinks, says or does? You're wasting your life battling things that it's likely will not change in any kind of hurry. The tenant, the council and the police are all failing to make your life any easier, so do what;s right for your health - and it *is* a health issue, noise pollution and other factors cause stress, and you're being forced to purchase and consume medication to alleviate it already.

For your own good, get out, and go somewhere better. I have had enough trouble with neighbours in the past to be saying this with absolute sincerity. They are damaging your health. Nobody's going to give you a special prize for carrying on.
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Re: Nuisance neighbour evidence..Need some recording advice

Postby necromunger » Tue Mar 27, 2012 8:42 pm

go round and knock on there door with this say turn it down and empty the clip.

http://www.anticsonline.co.uk/1873_1_17128.html
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Re: Nuisance neighbour evidence..Need some recording advice

Postby ramthelinefeed » Tue Mar 27, 2012 9:01 pm

Also - I'd point out that you shouldn't be surprised that the Council's own complaints procedure has not done f(ck all - because generally the procedure is that the department responsible "investigates" itself (i.e. the person who you are complaining about has to write you an email restating why the won't do their job), and then the next level is for a Complaints Officer to get that person's boss to write you a 2nd email explaining why they won't do their job...

...it wastes time, and is intended to put you off - but you then go to the Ombudsman.

Bear in mind you should also have 1 or 2 (or 3) Councillors in your ward.
You can find them here http://www.redditchbc.gov.uk/democracy/mgMemberIndex.aspx?bcr=1
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Re: Nuisance neighbour evidence..Need some recording advice

Postby Folderol » Wed Mar 28, 2012 9:22 am

nathanscribe wrote:
Hugh Robjohns wrote:
techmonkey wrote: Aye, I've been really tempted lately to just walk away and rent private, but my friends and family say I'd be mad to give up a secure tenancy and the right to buy with a 40% discount.

What price sanity and a good night's sleep? In any case, if you buy and then sell you'll be legaly obliged to inform any potential purchasers of your on-going and long-lasting noise nuisance problems... and who'd want to buy your discounted flat then?

I think I'd either be asking the council for an alternative flat, or just cutting your losses and renting privately elsewhere.

Hugh

My thoughts also. If there is an alternative, why put your energies and money and time into battling some cretin who clearly does not give the slightest t*ss what anybody thinks, says or does? You're wasting your life battling things that it's likely will not change in any kind of hurry. The tenant, the council and the police are all failing to make your life any easier, so do what;s right for your health - and it *is* a health issue, noise pollution and other factors cause stress, and you're being forced to purchase and consume medication to alleviate it already.

For your own good, get out, and go somewhere better. I have had enough trouble with neighbours in the past to be saying this with absolute sincerity. They are damaging your health. Nobody's going to give you a special prize for carrying on.
Absolutely agree with this. Get out while you still can. Knowing that you have complained, the low-life is now probably deliberately aggravating you for 'fun'. Living under constant stress is a main-line route to your first heart attack, and no amount of 'saved' money on cheap rent will buy that back.
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Re: Nuisance neighbour evidence..Need some recording advice

Postby grab » Wed Mar 28, 2012 10:47 am

FWIW, it does sound like you're doing everything right.

Some friends had the same kind of problem with a neighbour. They had to go to court too, bcos the council (South Cambs) were wasters. It took a while, but they got her slung out.

Also worth getting the police onside if you can. If you ask them to turn the music down and they threaten you, report it. If she's dealing drugs, they might even be happy to have a reason to go into the flat, bcos it would let them "accidentally" discover things! For our friends, having their Community Support Officer on their side was a real bonus.
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Re: Nuisance neighbour evidence..Need some recording advice

Postby Tomás Mulcahy » Wed Mar 28, 2012 2:01 pm

I concur with those who say move out. I was in a similar situation, we went as far as suing the council and got exactly nowhere. They won't want to evict because it's a breach of human rights- how mad is that? The flat might be discounted, but it is not worth it if it's literally driving you mad.
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Re: Nuisance neighbour evidence..Need some recording advice

Postby Mixedup » Wed Mar 28, 2012 2:08 pm

You really have two options:

(1) Cut your losses, as you say.

(2) Pursue this thing through the council complaints processes — because you won't get any joy with legal action until you've gone through that. (I should mention that I've worked in a public sector body in a unit handling complaints). Whatever the complaints procedure that is published by the council, I'd be half inclined to ignore the first bits: the only way to get any joy IME is to always address your complaint(s) directly to the Chief Executive. Their private office will put a rocket under any obstinate/arrogant officials so that they make the problem go away. They're too busy to want to have to deal with this correspondence, so the greater nuisance you make there, the more pressure they'll put on the department in question.

Personally, I'd make copies of *all* the evidence you've gathered; in particular your diary. I would then send a clear letter to the Council's CE stating that the Environmental Health department are failing in their obligation to assess the noise problems. I know that some councils will install measuring equipment in your flat, so that they can monitor noise issues over time — even when the EH department is not at work. You should not be having to pay for the equipment yourself! Complain about whatever you want — the actions of individual officers, for example — but always keep your main point clear: you just want them to discharge their responsibilities as landlords.



When it comes to the legal side of things, I'm sure your solicitor has given you some advice, but the law is muddy at best. So be clear about what it is you're complaining about! There's the statutory/regulatory side of the law, both in terms of EH and in terms of freeholder/leaseholder/tenant rights and responsibilities; and there's the tort of nuisance. Perhaps you could even demonstrate that you are suffering financially by the council's failure to act... I'm sure that the sort of figures that that *could* result in being awarded if successful would persuade the council to act... which at the end of the day is what you want them to do!

In terms of the action itself... well, the council could do several different things. They could evict. They could install noise-proofing (eg installing a lower ceiling in the neighbour's house... though that's not likely to help too much with the bass and structure-borne vibrations.)

On the recording... well, you don't really need to do that. The idea of an videoing an SPL meter is a good one. In terms of a diary, you could even store these videos online as part of a blog... then you can clearly see when the footage was uploaded.


...the bad news is that all of this will take a long, long time. When I had a nuisance neighbour, I moved. And haven't looked back.
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Re: Nuisance neighbour evidence..Need some recording advice

Postby Quaver » Wed Mar 28, 2012 4:41 pm

I used to have a problem neighbour who was oblivious to anyone else in the street playing music at ridiculous volumes at random times of the day,sadly I lived next door to him so had the brunt of it,thankfully I worked shifts so never really had to endure it at night that often,although it did disrupt my sleep at times,I spoke to him and was greeted with a barrage of abuse along the lines of if its too loud your too old.

After about 18 months of crap and the local council insistent of saying I need to to a log,before they would look at it,I had had enough,being a musician I'm open to loud music and an appreciattion of it,however not at the expense of someone elses privacy and livelihood(and sanity)after a week of my sleep being disrupted I'd finally had enough,came home on the friday/Early hours of saturday,after a real [ ****** ] week at work,decided it was payback time,so cranked my amps up to almost max,lined them up to the joining wall,of his bedroom and strummed away for half and hour on my guitars mostly playing power chords and using my distortion pedals to great extent,at 2.30 in the morning must have been a real shock to the clown next dooor I could hear doors slamming(obviously in frustration)and what sounded like someone with lead feet,funnily enough it had cured the problem,never had a peep out of him after that,thankfully the arse has now moved elsewhere!!!


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Re: Nuisance neighbour evidence..Need some recording advice

Postby John Willett » Wed Mar 28, 2012 9:13 pm

Jeff Ling wrote:If you have an iPhone or something similar, there are a few free spl or dB meter apps that might work. I've got several and they work great for me.

No good at all as the bass is rolled off and won't register the frequencies he needs. :frown:
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