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Formant correction of samples?

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Formant correction of samples?

Postby Kevin Nolan » Wed May 07, 2008 12:17 pm

Hi -

I'm new to sampling.

Is there software available that will look at a sampled note and formant correct for notes in a range above and below, allowing for those to be also saved as separate samples?

I have a series of samples of a Roland VP-330 , and about every third note is sampled. While they are excellent samples, it's be great to formant correct the intervening notes and save them as samples so that when played, there would be little or no obvious transition to the new sample point.

Alternatively - are there samplers that do such formant correcting on the fly when playing?

thanks,
Kevin.
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Re: Formant correction of samples?

Postby Brian Moynihan » Wed May 07, 2008 12:38 pm

Kontakt does this on the fly, though opinions differ about the sound quality. This is also what the Roland Variphrase VP-9000 did, though the polyphony was limited to 6 notes and the interface left a bit to be desired.

I've been looking for a similar tool for an eon, because offline processing of samples is always better than realtime pitch adjustment. For example if you have a single sample and use Prosoniq Timefactory to do an offline shift up 1 semitone while keeping the length the same, it takes a while to run the process but the resultant wav is very smooth with few artifacts. If there were a batch tool where you gave it 1 sample and told it to create equivalents to 2 octaves above and 2 octaves below and turn that into a sampler instrument that would be awesome.

The closest I ever got to automating the process was to create a default Sonar song where a dummy wave file called sample.wav was inserted onto a track, and that track was duplicated till there was 24 tracks the same. On the first track I inserted a high quality Waves offline pitch shifter set to -12 semitones, the next track -11 and so on up to 0 where the plugin was bypassed, then +1 on the next track and so on up to 12. What this did in essence was make a short song where there were 24 semitone variations of the same sample.

I ran Sonar's export function that can seperately export tracks to wavs and it printed 24 notes for me as sample1.wav sample2.wav etc which I dragged and dropped into the soft sampler.

The quality was better than any realtime pitch engines such as Kontakt. When I wanted to do the same to a new sample, I copied the wave into that default 'pitcher' song in Sonar and renamed it to sample.wav and did the export again.

It's still more long winded than I'd like. The great thing about doing a high quality offline version is that not only is the repitched sound much better to listen to but playing that instrument in a soft sampler uses far less cpu since it's just playing waves not doing any granular trickery.
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Re: Formant correction of samples?

Postby The Elf » Wed May 07, 2008 1:13 pm

Melodyne...
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Re: Formant correction of samples?

Postby Revson » Fri May 09, 2008 5:37 am

The DIRAC algorithms (in Wavelab and Prosoniq Time Factory) are quite good for this.
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Re: Formant correction of samples?

Postby Tui » Fri May 09, 2008 10:08 am

The Elf wrote:Melodyne...

How well does it work..?
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Re: Formant correction of samples?

Postby The Elf » Fri May 09, 2008 1:02 pm

Tui wrote:
The Elf wrote:Melodyne...

How well does it work..?
Very, very impressive in the uses I've put it to, but I've never wanted to change formats on their own - it's capable of it though.
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Re: Formant correction of samples?

Postby onesecondglance » Fri May 09, 2008 1:11 pm

The Bob Campbell wrote:Kontakt does this on the fly, though opinions differ about the sound quality. This is also what the Roland Variphrase VP-9000 did, though the polyphony was limited to 6 notes and the interface left a bit to be desired.

I've been looking for a similar tool for an eon, because offline processing of samples is always better than realtime pitch adjustment. For example if you have a single sample and use Prosoniq Timefactory to do an offline shift up 1 semitone while keeping the length the same, it takes a while to run the process but the resultant wav is very smooth with few artifacts. If there were a batch tool where you gave it 1 sample and told it to create equivalents to 2 octaves above and 2 octaves below and turn that into a sampler instrument that would be awesome.

The closest I ever got to automating the process was to create a default Sonar song where a dummy wave file called sample.wav was inserted onto a track, and that track was duplicated till there was 24 tracks the same. On the first track I inserted a high quality Waves offline pitch shifter set to -12 semitones, the next track -11 and so on up to 0 where the plugin was bypassed, then +1 on the next track and so on up to 12. What this did in essence was make a short song where there were 24 semitone variations of the same sample.

I ran Sonar's export function that can seperately export tracks to wavs and it printed 24 notes for me as sample1.wav sample2.wav etc which I dragged and dropped into the soft sampler.

The quality was better than any realtime pitch engines such as Kontakt. When I wanted to do the same to a new sample, I copied the wave into that default 'pitcher' song in Sonar and renamed it to sample.wav and did the export again.

It's still more long winded than I'd like. The great thing about doing a high quality offline version is that not only is the repitched sound much better to listen to but playing that instrument in a soft sampler uses far less cpu since it's just playing waves not doing any granular trickery.

that does sound like a pain but i can absolutely see how you would get good results that way.
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Re: Formant correction of samples?

Postby Tui » Fri May 09, 2008 2:26 pm

Talking of Roland... A while back, I sampled all sounds of my trusty Roland R8-M at 48/24, using Apogee ADs. I thought I might as well use them via the EXS24 in Logic - should sound the same, right? Wrong. Very wrong. Played back through the Logic sampler at a different pitch, the sounds quickly became unusable, since they sounded plain horrible. So, I pulled out the R8 again and compared what this machine does with the same samples, and the difference was stunning. One has to remember that this is an old unit, there is no multi-sampling whatsoever, but strictly one sample per sound only. However, even back then, the Roland engineers managed to keep the sounds perfectly playable and authentic over a wide range.
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