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15v Phantom Power. Why???

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15v Phantom Power. Why???

Postby Longsight John » Thu Dec 07, 2017 2:39 pm

I really want to get a Behringer Xenyx Q502USB so I can use my laptop to record away from home and also for solo live shows (which I won't get into now).
For recording however, the thing only supplies 15v Phantom for my Red Audio 8 condenser mic.
Please, tell me it's enough..

:roll:
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Re: 15v Phantom Power. Why???

Postby Kwackman » Thu Dec 07, 2017 2:42 pm

From Red Audio site,
"Operating Voltage: 48V dc phantom power (+/- 5V)"

But, looking at the manual for the Behringer Xenyx Q502USB, it implies it supplies 48V......
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Re: 15v Phantom Power. Why???

Postby Hugh Robjohns » Thu Dec 07, 2017 4:40 pm

If you read the small print in Behringer's Quick Start user guide, the Q502USB is indeed hampered with only 15V phantom.

Q502usb.jpg


A lot of budget devices provide a reduced phantom supply. It's to do with the cost and space required to provide a full 48V supply.

Some microphones can cope -- most of AKG's capacitor mics will accept anything between 9 and 52V, for example. But most do need the full 48V -- including your own mic.

Your options are either to buy a larger Behringer mixer with 48V phantom, or someone else's compact mixer with 48V phantom.... or buy an external phantom power unit (ART make one, for example -- http://artproaudio.com/phantom_power_su ... tom_i-48v/ ) ... or buy a different mic that will work on 15V phantom... or use a dynamic mic or an electret with an internal battery.

Besides most AKGs being happy on 15V, there are several Audio Technicas that will work on 12-48V -- like the AT3035 -- and a few Beyers like the Beyer MC90...

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Re: 15v Phantom Power. Why???

Postby Kwackman » Thu Dec 07, 2017 4:52 pm

Hugh Robjohns wrote:If you read the small print in Behringer's Quick Start user guide, the Q502USB is indeed hampered with only 15V phantom.

Bummer. I was looking at the "Q1202USB/Q1002USB/Q802USB/Q502USB User Manual", which is a little misleading. :thumbdown:
Sorry for raising your hopes Longsight John.
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Re: 15v Phantom Power. Why???

Postby Wonks » Thu Dec 07, 2017 4:58 pm

I was looking at the manual too, and it is very misleading. In fact you could imply from it that the phantom power is switchable between +48v and +15v. It doesn't specifically mention the 502 only has +15v whilst the others have +48v.
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Re: 15v Phantom Power. Why???

Postby jagraphics » Thu Dec 07, 2017 5:28 pm

Sadly too I have found Behringer specs to be misleading....

I have one of their "500 Watt" PA systems... however if you dig down deep this is "total power" and when I called Behringer, before I bought it, they were evasive and unhelpful on what the actual Watts RMS per channel was. (it is about 85W RMS per channel)

They said they had no way of measuring RMS watts! Also that "everyone always quoted Total Power"

Behringer stuff is cheap and OK as long as you know that is what you are getting and what the real specs are. The PA system does what I need for occasional use but I would never get their gear for serious use.
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Re: 15v Phantom Power. Why???

Postby Longsight John » Thu Dec 07, 2017 6:36 pm

Thanks folks.
Have to think again..

Btw, I've owned some brilliant Behringer gear over the years!
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Re: 15v Phantom Power. Why???

Postby Wonks » Thu Dec 07, 2017 6:44 pm

It's certainly got a lot better (and more consistently better) in recent years.

Hope you find something affordable that meets your needs.
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Re: 15v Phantom Power. Why???

Postby ef37a » Thu Dec 07, 2017 6:56 pm

Longsight John wrote:Thanks folks.
Have to think again..

Btw, I've owned some brilliant Behringer gear over the years!

You really need at least two mic channels anyway (trust me, you will!)
The Xenyx 802 is not a bad 'mixer' but quite honestly those first generation USB mixers were pretty dire. Only 16bits which would not be SO bad but they even fall short of 16bit dynamic range specc. The spectrum is full of spurious crap and the USB return signal is often noisy.

So, if you just want a cheap mixer the Berries are ok but if you want decent recording USB mixer look at product from A&H or Soundcraft. There are others but look for '24 bit recording' .
Also handy to have high impedance, guitar inputs on the mixer. A&H do that, maybe Soundcraft?

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Re: 15v Phantom Power. Why???

Postby Sam Spoons » Thu Dec 07, 2017 7:29 pm

Behringer have upped their game recently, and by a considerable margin in certain areas, notably digital mixers. I have two X32s (Compact and Rack) both brilliant, and an XR12 (apart from only having 2.4GHz wifi it is decent too). Some of the older stuff is ok (from personal experience, 'Composer' compressors and HA4400 rack mount headphone amp) but some is simply dire (some of the DI boxes). If you plan to buy new you probably won't go far wrong.

A&H are very good but will cost you rather more than an equivalent Berry
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Re: 15v Phantom Power. Why???

Postby Longsight John » Thu Dec 07, 2017 7:42 pm

I've actually got a decent RME system at home, but this is for something that I'd like to take out and use on my lappy when I'm away. It's only for recording vocals and acoustic guitar then transferring to the main machine at home for editing. I often get good ideas in hotels and waiting around between shows. By the time I get home, the vibe's gone.. So I'll probably get the Q502 and use an SM57 which is already in my live kit.

Anyway.. Talking of Behringer.. You must've seen who uses TWO BCR 2000's right in the middle of their rig...

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Re: 15v Phantom Power. Why???

Postby molecular » Thu Dec 07, 2017 7:55 pm

Longsight John wrote:Anyway.. Talking of Behringer.. You must've seen who uses TWO BCR 2000's right in the middle of their rig...

I always assumed they just had a coffee maker and some copies of "Puzzler" magazine in there.
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Re: 15v Phantom Power. Why???

Postby Hugh Robjohns » Thu Dec 07, 2017 8:03 pm

Instead or the Behringer, wouldn't you be better with a simple USB interface like the Scarlett 2i2 etc? Or maybe even just a USB mic?

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Re: 15v Phantom Power. Why???

Postby Longsight John » Thu Dec 07, 2017 8:22 pm

I always assumed they just had a coffee maker and some copies of "Puzzler" magazine in there.

:lol: POTD!

Hugh, I don't know if you remember my post from the other day, but I might need to connect my Harley Benton AC60 troubador combo via XLR to a bar's sound system (if they ain't got a karaoke system), which requires a line-level connection.
Therefore.. DI out to mixer. Line out to house.
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Re: 15v Phantom Power. Why???

Postby ef37a » Thu Dec 07, 2017 8:53 pm

Sam Spoons wrote:Behringer have upped their game recently, and by a considerable margin in certain areas, notably digital mixers. I have two X32s (Compact and Rack) both brilliant, and an XR12 (apart from only having 2.4GHz wifi it is decent too). Some of the older stuff is ok (from personal experience, 'Composer' compressors and HA4400 rack mount headphone amp) but some is simply dire (some of the DI boxes). If you plan to buy new you probably won't go far wrong.

A&H are very good but will cost you rather more than an equivalent Berry

Yes Sam but I don't think the bog S 16bit mixers have improved?

I have had some very decent Behringer gear. Electronically the BCA2000 was brilliant just very unreliable with rubbish drivers. As I said before, the 802 is pretty good.

I just wish they would stop ripping off 'our' amplifiers!

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Re: 15v Phantom Power. Why???

Postby Sam Spoons » Thu Dec 07, 2017 9:20 pm

Oh, don't get me wrong, I'm not a Berhingher 'fanboi' :D I have experienced some of the utter garbage they have produced in the past..... And I do find their business practices sometimes questionable (but they are far from unique in that).

But it's is undoubtedly true that they do make some seriously good stuff too these days........
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Re: 15v Phantom Power. Why???

Postby Wonks » Thu Dec 07, 2017 10:42 pm

ef37a wrote: As I said before, the 802 is pretty good.
Have you realised that we are talking about the Behringer Xenyx Q502USB here, Dave? ;)
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Re: 15v Phantom Power. Why???

Postby The Elf » Thu Dec 07, 2017 11:15 pm

Longsight John wrote:Anyway.. Talking of Behringer.. You must've seen who uses TWO BCR 2000's right in the middle of their rig...
I will also happily use a BCF/BCR2000 or two, but only because it's a controller and doesn't go in the audio signal path. IME Behringer have definitely improved over recent years, but I'd still not trust it to carry any audio that is important to me. I've seen too many people bitten...
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Re: 15v Phantom Power. Why???

Postby Longsight John » Thu Dec 07, 2017 11:38 pm

The Vintage guitar pedals I had were very nice. The Time Machine was a mental analogue delay and the Tube Monster was on a par with a Tube Screamer any day. Super solid metal chassis and just damn good. I gave 'em to my son's mate who really ought to give me some money, now I think about it.. Hmm..
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Re: 15v Phantom Power. Why???

Postby ef37a » Fri Dec 08, 2017 7:52 am

Wonks wrote:
ef37a wrote: As I said before, the 802 is pretty good.
Have you realised that we are talking about the Behringer Xenyx Q502USB here, Dave? ;)

Yes.
I mentioned the Xenyx EIGHT O TWO because..
1) I have one and it was replaced with an A&H zed 10 which IS better but only marginally in terms of noise performance, not taking anything from A&H, just that my sample of 802 is pretty good.

2) The 802 has been relegated to a bedroom where it amps up two cheap dynamics in the garden. It has sat there, never off for a good 4 years.

3) OP does not IMHO EVER want a single mic input AI/mixer. Maybe the odd podcaster would be served but at the very least you need a second mic input to DI guitar?

I will admit Wonks that at 72+ and under medication I am not as sharp as I was but in this case, not a ga-ga moment!

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