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How to tell if a song is recorded or edited

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How to tell if a song is recorded or edited

Postby xxl774 » Mon Feb 05, 2018 1:44 am

Hi, I am composing some simple piano songs. I just hope to know, editing and recording, which one will make my some heard better and how to tell them.

The following website is a YouTube video of Yurima's album. If you like to hear the different songs on 7:21 and 11:38, you will find they are heard obviously different. Hopefully my song can hear like the latter one. So, anyone know the 11:38 song is created by recording or just edited by a computer. This will help me a lot for my composition. Thank you very much.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Z5EjAmZS1o
7:21- Spring Time
11:38- Maybe
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Re: How to tell if a song is recorded or edited

Postby molecular » Mon Feb 05, 2018 3:22 pm

I think both are played by the pianist, and I think both are recordings of a digital piano. They might have been recorded as MIDI first, then edited.

I agree with you that the production of the second one is better.

I think this is because the first one is too compressed, and i don't like the reverb. I think they were both recorded the same way.



"edited" - do you mean using a computer or MIDI sequencer to do the performance, instead of human? I don't really understand your use of the word "edited".
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Re: How to tell if a song is recorded or edited

Postby xxl774 » Mon Feb 05, 2018 5:58 pm

molecular wrote:I think both are played by the pianist, and I think both are recordings of a digital piano. They might have been recorded as MIDI first, then edited.

I agree with you that the production of the second one is better.

I think this is because the first one is too compressed, and i don't like the reverb. I think they were both recorded the same way.



"edited" - do you mean using a computer or MIDI sequencer to do the performance, instead of human? I don't really understand your use of the word "edited".

Thank you for your reply.

Yeah. You know some songs are created by using sound material, which regulated volume on a computer and made without recording. This is what I mean by "edited". I think it is not very accurate anyway.

I don't know how to edit the audio sound, so if I go to a recording studio, is there someone will help me do that? I can only make musical notational sheets, so I just feel kind of confused about what to do next step. Could you please tell me something if you know.

Thank you.
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Re: How to tell if a song is recorded or edited

Postby Sam Spoons » Mon Feb 05, 2018 7:16 pm

Probably worth asking at this stage are you a piano player or a composer who plays another instrument and not piano (or, indeed no instruments at all)?

If you are a piano player and intend to play the pieces yourself then there are any number of ways you can record your music. From using a nice acoustic piano in a nice room with nice mics to using a master keyboard to record a midi file/track of the performance and render that into an audio file using a good sampled piano library. A studio will be able to help you in both cases.

However if you want to translate your manuscript from dots on a page to recorded piano the best way is undoubtedly to employ a decent pianist. It can be done in a computer (if you input the manuscript, some can even read from a scan of the pages) but the performance will be very mechanical and stilted, certainly nothing like the ones in the youtube you linked to.

HTH
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Re: How to tell if a song is recorded or edited

Postby CS70 » Mon Feb 05, 2018 7:24 pm

If the job is done properly, you can't tell.
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Re: How to tell if a song is recorded or edited

Postby xxl774 » Mon Feb 05, 2018 10:28 pm

Sam Spoons wrote:Probably worth asking at this stage are you a piano player or a composer who plays another instrument and not piano (or, indeed no instruments at all)?

If you are a piano player and intend to play the pieces yourself then there are any number of ways you can record your music. From using a nice acoustic piano in a nice room with nice mics to using a master keyboard to record a midi file/track of the performance and render that into an audio file using a good sampled piano library. A studio will be able to help you in both cases.

However if you want to translate your manuscript from dots on a page to recorded piano the best way is undoubtedly to employ a decent pianist. It can be done in a computer (if you input the manuscript, some can even read from a scan of the pages) but the performance will be very mechanical and stilted, certainly nothing like the ones in the youtube you linked to.

HTH

Ok. It sounds good to use a master keyboard.

I just feel confused about how to render the midi file into other sample piano library. Does that mean I can change my keyboard sound like? For example, I use Fazioli grand piano library, and then I play my songs with the master keyboard, it will automatically change to Fazioli-piano-sound like, meanwhile, the speed and volume variation of what I play will be automatically transfer to the file without extra editing?

Thank you.
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Re: How to tell if a song is recorded or edited

Postby Sam Spoons » Mon Feb 05, 2018 10:57 pm

How are you recording the output from the keyboard? Normally you would record into a DAW or sequencer either as an audio track (in which case the sounds are fixed as recorded) or as a midi track (which means you can edit the sounds afterwards). In simple terms (and I've spent couple of hours in the last few days explaining exactly this to my drummer mate) midi records the key presses you make when playing the keyboard (including velocity) this allows you to use the recorded performance to play a midi instrument as if you were playing the keyboard yourself. An audio file (.wav, .mp3 or WHY) records the actual sounds your piano/sound module/VSTi makes at the time you play it so those can only be changed in the same way a real piano recording can be changed by editing, e. g. cutting out a section or copying a section into another place or by adding reverb or other audio processing. It'is possible, even, to adjust the timing of notes and the dynamics to a certain extent but the source is still basic sound of the performance.

HTH

TBH, if you are finding this hard to understand and can play the pieces with confidence you will probably get a better result by recording the output of the Fazolli piano directly to an audio recorder. Or if you have access to a studio the engineer will be able to deal with all these issues and leave you to concentrate on the important bit..... performing the music to the best of your ability.
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Re: How to tell if a song is recorded or edited

Postby xxl774 » Sun May 19, 2019 8:17 am

OK. I think I understand. So there are two ways of recording, one is using the midi keyboard (master keyboard is the same thing?) to put data into a computer then load instrumental samples to let the MIDI make a sound.
Another way is real recording, in a room, play an instrument, recored with microphones.

Here are some simple question,

1: I try to find out what is digital recording, there is a lot of explanation talking about the computational process. I just need to know if the digital recording is the real recording that a player plays an instrument in a room and recorded by microphones.
2: Also, your first reply talked about the digital piano. Did you mean the digital piano as a real instrument and its sound is recorded in a room with microphones or the digital piano have the access to input its sound directly to a computer, or the digital piano is something like a MIDI keyboard that cannot make sound?
3: For simple piano songs, which way you would recommend to have the best quality of the songs?

Thanks.
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Re: How to tell if a song is recorded or edited

Postby Sam Spoons » Sun May 19, 2019 10:24 am

Three ways, midi keyboard and record the midi, (midi records when you played a note, it's pitch, how long and how hard) this results in a file ending in .mid which you can then use to 'play' a digital/sampled piano and record the audio at a later date. This let's you choose the piano sound later (Rhodes, Grand, Honky-tonk or WHY).

Midi keyboard (or digital piano) but this time record the piano into an 'audio file' ending in (probably) .wav. This can't be changed later so if you record a Rhodes sound you can't change that to a Concert Grand later.

Play a nice piano in a nice room and record it with nice mics.

With all of them you could edit a chorus out or use chorus one to replace chorus two (say if you made a mistake) or other changes (much like you might edit a document to change the order of the paragraphs, it was done with a razor blade on tape or with a mouse on a computer) but with the real piano and mics that is about the most you can do.

1, Digital audio recording simply stores the recording in digital format compared to, say, a tape recorder which stores it in an analogue format, both are 'real' and you don't need to understand the differences to be able to make good recordings. Digital can be more true to life than tape. Digital is the form that music is stored on CDs.

2, See above, but to add, a digital piano is (simplified) 88 digital recordings of every piano note which can be played back when you play the related key. You press the middle C key and the middle C recording will play. It's hugely more complex than that but that's all you really need to know.

3, Depends what instruments you have already. If you sing as well then you'll need to record the voice (either at the same time as the piano part or later while listening to a playback of the piano). The usual way would be to record the audio output from the piano to a track on a recorder and the vocal to another while listening to both on headphones so the piano does not get picked up by the vocal mic. But there are many other ways so if you have a nice piano in a nice room then recording with mics might be best.

HTH
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