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Sampletank 3 or a mixture of samplers?

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Sampletank 3 or a mixture of samplers?

Postby garrettendi » Tue Mar 13, 2018 3:28 pm

Wasn't sure where to put this!

I need advice!

So, samples wise I just need things like bass guitars, strings, pianos and drums. Other orchestra instruments would be a bonus. I'd be mostly triggering these from a digital piano, but also from my e-drum kit in the case of drums.

I've researched it and narrowed it down to two options (I don't like Kontakt - it just doesn't feel "right" to me): Sampletank 3 for about £350, or a mixture of others such as Garritan for piano and strings, and EZDrummer for drums. That would still leave me bass-less with not a huge lot of variety for pianos and drums. Pianoteq could be another option too.

I'd have about £350 to spend. I like Sampletank 3 CS. It sounds excellent to my ears so I imagine the full whack version would be even better. And I know how to use it so there's no real learning curve.

I have until December to decide (yeah I know - way too early for me to be planning this), so I was wondering what people thought? My gut is to go with Sampletank also because I don't want to load my PC up with too much bloat.
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Re: Sampletank 3 or a mixture of samplers?

Postby Kwackman » Tue Mar 13, 2018 3:46 pm

Maybe consider Pianoteq? Reviewed in this month's mag.
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Re: Sampletank 3 or a mixture of samplers?

Postby garrettendi » Tue Mar 13, 2018 3:46 pm

That is an option, yes. But the issue is I need several instruments besides piano :)
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Re: Sampletank 3 or a mixture of samplers?

Postby The Elf » Tue Mar 13, 2018 3:49 pm

You may not like Kontakt, but it really is the best game in town. I doubt that you're going to find the quality and breadth of stuff available for Kontakt in other formats...

Buyer beware!
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Re: Sampletank 3 or a mixture of samplers?

Postby garrettendi » Tue Mar 13, 2018 3:50 pm

Hmmm... You might be right there. I can't explain it. Just something about Kontakt rubs me up the wrong way.

But I may have to just swallow my pride

EDIT: Just looked it up. I'm now even more convinced that Kontakt is a bad fit for me!
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Re: Sampletank 3 or a mixture of samplers?

Postby The Elf » Tue Mar 13, 2018 4:57 pm

Kontakt is appalling for home-grown creations. I'm very aware of that. I can bluff my way through it, but it really is over-complex and full of contradictions. Nothing is where you expect it to be, the simplest of edits involves several leaps between sections that seem irrelevant, the sample editor is 'ideosyncratic', to say the least...

But it has, by an order of magnitude, the widest support of sample library providers.

So, if third party libraries were my main concern I would go Kontakt. If creating my own samples was my main concern (and compatibility with the rest of the world was of no consequence), then I might look elsewhere. Mach 5 was a superb sampler, for example - no idea where it is now.

It's up to you, of course, and you have to do what you feel is best for you, but if it was my money... :?

I'll leave it to others now to add their own advice - I'm only one voice! :D
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Re: Sampletank 3 or a mixture of samplers?

Postby garrettendi » Tue Mar 13, 2018 5:03 pm

Thanks Elf, I appreciate it. I know it sounds like I'm disregarding your advice, but I am taking it into consideration.

But as you say, I have to do what feels best for me.

I'd still love more advice though. Something about "many counsellors" and all that.

EDIT: Oh and I'd like to avoid third party libraries. That sounds like a great way to lose money very fast! :lol:
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Re: Sampletank 3 or a mixture of samplers?

Postby Martin Walker » Tue Mar 13, 2018 5:34 pm

The Elf wrote:Kontakt... has, by an order of magnitude, the widest support of sample library providers.

I have Kontakt, and while I haven't tried to create libraries using it, its bundled library does almost everything that I need, and I get the few other things via third party Kontakt sample libraries that fit my particular niche.

I certainly wouldn't recommend a 'mixture of samplers', as they might interfere with each other (no sniggering at the back Pearson!)

If you're streaming samples, you don't really want two or more sampling engines trying to outdo each other priority-wise :beamup:


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Re: Sampletank 3 or a mixture of samplers?

Postby job » Tue Mar 13, 2018 5:35 pm

Maybe take a look at UVI falcon. I'm really tempted with it myself as i dislike Kontakt also (interface is terrible! :protest: ). Falcon almost looks like it could be the new Kontakt! ...although i've never used it.
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Re: Sampletank 3 or a mixture of samplers?

Postby garrettendi » Tue Mar 13, 2018 5:36 pm

Martin Walker wrote:If you're streaming samples, you don't really want two or more sampling engines trying to outdo each other priority-wise :beamup:

And that right there is the biggest reason I don't want a mixture like Garritan+Pianoteq+EzDrummer+Whatever

It looks like this is going to be decided in favour of an all-in solution such as SampleTank or - yes - possibly Kontakt
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Re: Sampletank 3 or a mixture of samplers?

Postby garrettendi » Tue Mar 13, 2018 5:37 pm

job wrote:Maybe take a look at UVI falcon. I'm really tempted with it myself as i dislike Kontakt also (interface is terrible! :protest: ). Falcon almost looks like it could be the new Kontakt! ...although i've never used it.

Never heard of that! It looks interesting!
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Re: Sampletank 3 or a mixture of samplers?

Postby OneWorld » Tue Mar 13, 2018 7:29 pm

I started out with Gigastudio, but somehow Kontakt stole its thunder. I really liked Gigastudio, it sounded great and the UI was simplicity itself.

I clung onto Gigastudio for as long as I could, but in the end had to desert it and go over to Kontakt, but I simply could not get along with it, some of the simplest things are so convoluted. I wonder whether it is designed with geeks in mind as opposed to musicians, it just seems over engineered. OK there are those that want to get under the bonnet and tweak themselves to kingdom come, but that doesn't mean all of us are.

Anyway I use Cubase and over the years, with each new version, I have grown to like Halion. The current version of Halion SE that comes with Cubase is quite convincing, far easier to configure than Kontakt, sounds good and does allow quite a lot of config'ing for those that do like to tweak things, the UI is quite intuitive that even I can work it out.

I am the type of person that likes the situation where I press a button or turn a knob, something expected happens. I have now gone on to buy the full version of Halion and I find myself using Kontakt less and less.

One of the things that put me off Kontakt was for example Studio Drummer, it sounds great but it is an established resource hog no matter what I tried I had to go back to my audio interface and increase the sample latency. Then I came across an obscure site which said "Turn the Studio Drummer Effects off" Studio Drummer opens with a template with all FX turned on, turn that off and my PC was back to normal instead of wheezing it's way through a tune.

Why do the designers stitch in a template that opens firing on all cylinders when all one needs is a simple drum track? And why don't they have an idiot button that simply says FX ON/OFF.

I haven't tried Sampletank but it does look quite intuitive and they have a free demo version which seems to have enough instruments to allow the user to evaluate the product quite comprehensively.

Had it not been for Halion I think I would have gone for Sampletank. I have bought IK Multimedia products in the past and I find their customer support quite helpful and friendly and the products quite useful.
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Re: Sampletank 3 or a mixture of samplers?

Postby Urthlupe » Wed Mar 14, 2018 5:55 am

garrettendi wrote:
Martin Walker wrote:If you're streaming samples, you don't really want two or more sampling engines trying to outdo each other priority-wise :beamup:

And that right there is the biggest reason I don't want a mixture like Garritan+Pianoteq+EzDrummer+Whatever

I don’t get that one myself..... never found a ‘priority’ problem to any extent that practically affects workflow. Hardware resources within your computer are obviously fundamental to how many instances you’ll achieve, but there are obviously ways around that. There is so much wonderful soft instrumentation out there I certainly wouldn’t let something like an idea that they’d fight for ‘priority’ restrict me to a single VI. In any event, given the VI resources provided in most DAW’s these days , the minute you add something like Sampletank or Kontakt then you’re already running more than one.....

If this really is a major concern in your head then surely you should try some time with Kontakt - an environment within your DAW environment wherein you are able to run multiple ‘compatible’ VI’s.

Rather I’d say it’s the budget that’s the issue.... abs sure you’re right fella, more VI’s will Lead to more temptation and more expense - but that’s because many of them are way funky - many with the ability to transform your work.

Good luck with your choice Garrettendi - looks like you have months of indecision ahead :-).

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Re: Sampletank 3 or a mixture of samplers?

Postby garrettendi » Wed Mar 14, 2018 10:07 am

Thanks everyone for such great replies.

Even if my PC can handle multiple plugins, having one library makes sense to me as then I don't fill my hard drive with fluff (I'm already planning way too many synths... Just two more!). And as for the third party libraries I can install onto Kontakt, this is again something I'd rather avoid. I'd rather just pay the £350/£400 and be done with it!

I've listened to sounds from Kontakt and Sampletank and also watched several YouTube videos, and I really do prefer Sampletank. The sounds to me are more pleasant, (but not necessarily more realistic) and given I already know my way around Sampletank CS (the free one), I know it's easier to use (I have in the past used Kontakt Player... I uninstalled it last night as I hated it).

So it's looking more and more likely I'll go for Sampletank, but as has been said... I have months of indecision to suffer!

Thanks everyone for the advice, and it's great to see that I'm not the only one who doesn't like Kontakt!
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Re: Sampletank 3 or a mixture of samplers?

Postby Zukan » Wed Mar 14, 2018 4:42 pm

job wrote:Maybe take a look at UVI falcon. I'm really tempted with it myself as i dislike Kontakt also (interface is terrible! :protest: ). Falcon almost looks like it could be the new Kontakt! ...although i've never used it.

I have Falcon and it's a different world to Kontakt.

It's has proper sound design tools.

However, if you after a ton of libraries and plug n' play then, sadly, NI might be the way forward.
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Re: Sampletank 3 or a mixture of samplers?

Postby job » Wed Mar 14, 2018 5:28 pm

Zukan wrote:I have Falcon and it's a different world to Kontakt.

My thinking for being a potential replacement to Kontakt was the available scripting. I understand it isn't, but rather that it could be. It has its own UVI instruments, is there a reason it couldn't have XYZ instruments, too? It's lua rather than Javascript which is a excellent call in my book as far as programming instruments for a noob goes. It seems to have much going for it, and can do so much more than Kontakt but doesn't look like Kontakt can do anything that it can't? Apart from read nki... go UVI! :thumbup:
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Re: Sampletank 3 or a mixture of samplers?

Postby garrettendi » Mon Mar 26, 2018 9:30 am

Quick update on this!

I've had to knock Sampletank on the head, due to the fact it doesn't play nice with my drum kit and also doesn't map the drums out into separate tracks.

I've since found MT Power Drum Kit 2, and the free drum VSTIs that come with Mixbus and these fit the bill perfectly.

I've also tried the demo of Pianoteq... Bl***y Blinking Nora this thing is great! I really like it, not sure it's better than a sampled piano but it's still very good to my ears.

So the only need I have left samples wise is a bass guitar which is met by the free version of SampleTank (the bass actually works well)

So I'm kind of going for the "mixture" option but at the same time trying to limit the options I use.

EDIT: In a short while, I'll be donating to MT and buying Pianoteq Stage, unless anyone has any additional advice?
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