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HELP BUILDING A 40.000 EUR SET-UP

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HELP BUILDING A 40.000 EUR SET-UP

Postby vkonyofficial » Sun Mar 18, 2018 8:22 pm

So guys, i saved a lot ... I'm building a set-up for my new studio but i wanna ask somebody with my desicions about the products that i'm gonna buy for it . I worked on a windows so far , Cubase for production and also mastering but i'm gonna switch to Logic X Pro with the ocasion of buying the iMac Pro (2,3 Ghz ,18 core ,128 GB DDR4 , 4TB SSD ,Radeon Pro Vega 64) . I'm not used to Mac , at all .I Don't know if anything on my list is compatibile with the iMac , There's the part where i need HUGE help from you guys . This is my list . If something does not belong here ,give me some advice about what should i do .

-Brauner Phantom Classic
-Avalon VT-737SP
-Presonus StudioLive 16 Series III ( I really don't know how to connect it to the imac)
-Presonus HP60
-AKG K-872
-Beyerdynamic Amiron Home
-Avid Pro Tools
-Avid Sync HD IO ( I'm not so sure about this one )
-Marshall JVM410H Bundle 3
-Gibson Les Paul Standard HP 2018 BOF
-Korg Kronos 61
-Sennheiser 600 Drum Set
-Clearsonic A2466x6 (A5-6) Drum Shield
-DW PDP CM5 Standard Silver/Black
-the t.bone Micscreen
-Shure KSM 137 Stereoset

I am a live performer , I play all the instruments above, and I have already set up the place for the studio with isolation . I am focused to record live instruments and mastering more than VST , i saw that Logic already has a necessary of instruments and Plug-ins for mastering , i don't know if it's enough and i don't know if you can crack anything on iMac , that's why I'm asking for your help .
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Re: HELP BUILDING A 40.000 EUR SET-UP

Postby CS70 » Sun Mar 18, 2018 9:00 pm

Is is stuff you're gonna buy, or stuff you have already?
If you plan on using Logic (or were using Cubase), what's the point of ProTools?

For sure the Avalon is a great strip, and the Brauner a good mic so long you like the sound, but isn't it only cardioid? Do you plan the combo only for vocals? If you have to have one big mic, a multi-pattern might come more handy in a variety of situations. I've never tried the KSM137s so know nothing more than you.

On the Gibson+Marshall, sure, why not - a good guitar sound is way more in the fingers and skills than in the gear anyway. Tough I would seriously look at the used market for that kind of stuff, guitarists are notorious compulsive gear acquirers (and often the less they play, the more they buy) so you can find tremendous bargains if you have a little patience.

Why two closed-back earphones? You might want a closed one with good isolation for tracking and an open-back for mixing instead?

Can't comment on the synth part as I know nothing on the matter.

If you're treated your vocal space well, there should be a limited need for a mic screen, but then it's not like a big expenditure anyways. And of course, you have treated your space well, haven't you? That mention of "isolation" is a big chilling.. :D

Last question - just curiosity - why the imac? Nothing wrong with it for sure but what's the point of re-learning an operating system if you already have a perfectly good Cubase+PC combo?
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Re: HELP BUILDING A 40.000 EUR SET-UP

Postby James Perrett » Sun Mar 18, 2018 9:46 pm

I'd suggest you don't buy it all at once as many of the people that I know who have done that have ended up regretting it and selling much of the gear they bought. Take things in gentle steps and build up your studio as you go. If you buy lots of gear at the same time you probably won't really learn how to get the best out of each item.

What do you actually need for the next session? Is this studio for yourself or will you be hiring it out?

Why change to Mac, Logic and Protools if Cubase is working for you. If it isn't working then have you looked at other alternatives? What about monitors?
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Re: HELP BUILDING A 40.000 EUR SET-UP

Postby Dave B » Sun Mar 18, 2018 10:26 pm

vkonyofficial wrote: i don't know if you can crack anything on iMac , that's why I'm asking for your help .

Quick note here : round these parts we take a very dim view of people using cracked software. It's wrong and should not be done - there are people who we know who have been ruined by piracy. It's a big no no - you can't afford proper software? If you can afford to splash out on an expensive Mac, you can afford to pay for your software.

If you already have a valid version of Cubase, and you are comfortable with using it, you can just install it on your new Mac. I'm sure that Steinberg support can help out with any problems you may have doing that. The only problem might be the version of software may need to be upgraded to meet the current mac OS.

Oh, and the Kronos is definitely a good buy. I have other units that I prefer, but I really can't knock my Kronos and if you only left me with that one, I wouldn't be heartbroken.
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Re: HELP BUILDING A 40.000 EUR SET-UP

Postby Dave Rowles » Sun Mar 18, 2018 11:46 pm

That's a lot to spend on a new iMac. €15k on a computer. Do you do video as well? If not, do you really need all that power? If you halved the memory and the processor, you'd save yourself 3k, and I'm not convinced you'd notice the difference unless you really max out the virtual soundsets

I have to agree, why pro-tools? If you don't already use it, what features does it have that you want? I'm a Logic Pro fan, but if you already know cubase and are happy with it, I'd stick to it. It's cross platform, so there's no reason to switch.

Given that you're going for the Brauner and the Avalon, the StudioLive seems a bit of a low end purchase to plug it into. Not knocking the desk, but I'd probably be looking at something along the lines of 2 Audient ASP880, and an ID44 or similar to plug it all into. Far better as the converter/pres in concert with the Avalon. Then look at getting a control surface of some description if you want physical faders, especially look at something that's motorised, or the Slate Digital Raven surface.

As to the instruments, I can't knock it, but on the guitar amp front, I'd probably look for something a little more boutique, and less powerful. I'm totally into smaller wattage valve types, because you can crank them up more without getting the ear bleeding factor. I run an old tiny terror into a 2x12, and I get more out of that than I could ever want at a gig. Kronos is a good all round keyboard, and the Kit is good too.

I'd seriously look into getting individual drum/instrument mics. If I was looking for a live sound set-up then the 600 series are great for touring/durability, but I'd be looking for more versatile mics for a studio. Mics you can put on anything, like a MD421, or some C414s, or similar. Don't think about what you want to record now, think about what you might want to record in the future. I'd probably suggest getting a Royer R121 as well if you're into your guitar tone.

Just suggestions mind. It'd difficult to know exactly what's best without knowing a lot more about what you already have.

I can also agree that you should buy bit by bit. Learning a lot of new gear at once is a daunting task!
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Re: HELP BUILDING A 40.000 EUR SET-UP

Postby vkonyofficial » Mon Mar 19, 2018 12:56 pm

CS70 wrote:Is is stuff you're gonna buy, or stuff you have already?
If you plan on using Logic (or were using Cubase), what's the point of ProTools?

For sure the Avalon is a great strip, and the Brauner a good mic so long you like the sound, but isn't it only cardioid? Do you plan the combo only for vocals? If you have to have one big mic, a multi-pattern might come more handy in a variety of situations. I've never tried the KSM137s so know nothing more than you.

On the Gibson+Marshall, sure, why not - a good guitar sound is way more in the fingers and skills than in the gear anyway. Tough I would seriously look at the used market for that kind of stuff, guitarists are notorious compulsive gear acquirers (and often the less they play, the more they buy) so you can find tremendous bargains if you have a little patience.

Why two closed-back earphones? You might want a closed one with good isolation for tracking and an open-back for mixing instead?

Can't comment on the synth part as I know nothing on the matter.

If you're treated your vocal space well, there should be a limited need for a mic screen, but then it's not like a big expenditure anyways. And of course, you have treated your space well, haven't you? That mention of "isolation" is a big chilling.. :D

Last question - just curiosity - why the imac? Nothing wrong with it for sure but what's the point of re-learning an operating system if you already have a perfectly good Cubase+PC combo?

I am a Win User , but i'm aware that Logic and Mac are way more stable than Windows. I convinced myself working also on a Mac in some studios so ...i seen some awesome things about the workflow that a iMac gives you . The point of ProTools is the external Export Engine . It's the best for mastering, I'm gonna use ProTools just for mastering .
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Re: HELP BUILDING A 40.000 EUR SET-UP

Postby vkonyofficial » Mon Mar 19, 2018 12:59 pm

James Perrett wrote:I'd suggest you don't buy it all at once as many of the people that I know who have done that have ended up regretting it and selling much of the gear they bought. Take things in gentle steps and build up your studio as you go. If you buy lots of gear at the same time you probably won't really learn how to get the best out of each item.

What do you actually need for the next session? Is this studio for yourself or will you be hiring it out?

Why change to Mac, Logic and Protools if Cubase is working for you. If it isn't working then have you looked at other alternatives? What about monitors?

I have to buy them all together, i choose the Mac over the Windows because I've seen that is way more stable than a Windows .
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Re: HELP BUILDING A 40.000 EUR SET-UP

Postby vkonyofficial » Mon Mar 19, 2018 1:02 pm

Dave B wrote:
vkonyofficial wrote: i don't know if you can crack anything on iMac , that's why I'm asking for your help .

Quick note here : round these parts we take a very dim view of people using cracked software. It's wrong and should not be done - there are people who we know who have been ruined by piracy. It's a big no no - you can't afford proper software? If you can afford to splash out on an expensive Mac, you can afford to pay for your software.

If you already have a valid version of Cubase, and you are comfortable with using it, you can just install it on your new Mac. I'm sure that Steinberg support can help out with any problems you may have doing that. The only problem might be the version of software may need to be upgraded to meet the current mac OS.

Oh, and the Kronos is definitely a good buy. I have other units that I prefer, but I really can't knock my Kronos and if you only left me with that one, I wouldn't be heartbroken.

Actually i'm gonna get the Kronos to live performances because right now i'm using a Fantom G in studio and Live , and want to keep the Fantom in Studio because is wonderful and powerful. And of course i'm gonna still keep the cubase a while ... but i'm aware that it's time is kinda done. It has an awful eq . Awful Export Engine ....it's just not right , the mixdown just does not sound right , that's why the Pro Tools is on my list , and the HD Omni
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Re: HELP BUILDING A 40.000 EUR SET-UP

Postby vkonyofficial » Mon Mar 19, 2018 1:07 pm

Dave Rowles wrote:That's a lot to spend on a new iMac. €15k on a computer. Do you do video as well? If not, do you really need all that power? If you halved the memory and the processor, you'd save yourself 3k, and I'm not convinced you'd notice the difference unless you really max out the virtual soundsets

I have to agree, why pro-tools? If you don't already use it, what features does it have that you want? I'm a Logic Pro fan, but if you already know cubase and are happy with it, I'd stick to it. It's cross platform, so there's no reason to switch.

Given that you're going for the Brauner and the Avalon, the StudioLive seems a bit of a low end purchase to plug it into. Not knocking the desk, but I'd probably be looking at something along the lines of 2 Audient ASP880, and an ID44 or similar to plug it all into. Far better as the converter/pres in concert with the Avalon. Then look at getting a control surface of some description if you want physical faders, especially look at something that's motorised, or the Slate Digital Raven surface.


As to the instruments, I can't knock it, but on the guitar amp front, I'd probably look for something a little more boutique, and less powerful. I'm totally into smaller wattage valve types, because you can crank them up more without getting the ear bleeding factor. I run an old tiny terror into a 2x12, and I get more out of that than I could ever want at a gig. Kronos is a good all round keyboard, and the Kit is good too.

I'd seriously look into getting individual drum/instrument mics. If I was looking for a live sound set-up then the 600 series are great for touring/durability, but I'd be looking for more versatile mics for a studio. Mics you can put on anything, like a MD421, or some C414s, or similar. Don't think about what you want to record now, think about what you might want to record in the future. I'd probably suggest getting a Royer R121 as well if you're into your guitar tone.

Just suggestions mind. It'd difficult to know exactly what's best without knowing a lot more about what you already have.

I can also agree that you should buy bit by bit. Learning a lot of new gear at once is a daunting task!

Yes, I also do video in the studio . The mac is a must . The Marshall is also for live performances on stage, that's why i choose it . By now , i switched the brauner to a Neumann.
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Re: HELP BUILDING A 40.000 EUR SET-UP

Postby CS70 » Mon Mar 19, 2018 1:33 pm

vkonyofficial wrote:I am a Win User , but i'm aware that Logic and Mac are way more stable than Windows. I convinced myself working also on a Mac in some studios so ...i seen some awesome things about the workflow that a iMac gives you . The point of ProTools is the external Export Engine . It's the best for mastering, I'm gonna use ProTools just for mastering .

By all means it's your money, but I've been running Windows (first 7, now 10) on two machines over the last 5 years with very few problems (some BSODs specifically due to the old AVID audio interface I was using) and zero since I swapped interface and installed Win10. Don't know what you get your awareness from, but I'd double check if that was the only reason.

For ProTools, where do you get that idea from?
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Re: HELP BUILDING A 40.000 EUR SET-UP

Postby vkonyofficial » Mon Mar 19, 2018 10:09 pm

CS70 wrote:
vkonyofficial wrote:I am a Win User , but i'm aware that Logic and Mac are way more stable than Windows. I convinced myself working also on a Mac in some studios so ...i seen some awesome things about the workflow that a iMac gives you . The point of ProTools is the external Export Engine . It's the best for mastering, I'm gonna use ProTools just for mastering .

By all means it's your money, but I've been running Windows (first 7, now 10) on two machines over the last 5 years with very few problems (some BSODs specifically due to the old AVID audio interface I was using) and zero since I swapped interface and installed Win10. Don't know what you get your awareness from, but I'd double check if that was the only reason.

For ProTools, where do you get that idea from?

I attended at some mastering classes , and they discussed about it
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Re: HELP BUILDING A 40.000 EUR SET-UP

Postby Urthlupe » Mon Mar 19, 2018 10:53 pm

:o ......amazed at how much money folks become determined to spend on hype and hearsay....

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Re: HELP BUILDING A 40.000 EUR SET-UP

Postby Dave Rowles » Mon Mar 19, 2018 11:08 pm

vkonyofficial wrote:Yes, I also do video in the studio . The mac is a must . The Marshall is also for live performances on stage, that's why i choose it . By now , i switched the brauner to a Neumann.

Being a live sound engineer as well, I dislike 100w stacks, or fender twins for that matter. But if it makes the sound you want then go for it :) Just be prepared for the sound guy to tell you to turn it down....

I'm gonna use ProTools just for mastering
Awful Export Engine ....it's just not right , the mixdown just does not sound right , that's why the Pro Tools is on my list , and the HD Omni

That's not my experience of Cubase, and I assure you that there are a number of hit records produced using solely Cubase, and mastered in it too. If you don't like the export engine, but like the mix you get in it, mixdown the old fashioned way. Play the song in real time to an external recorder, or loop the output from cubase back into itself.

As to ProTools being best for mastering, I simply don't agree. I think it's no better or worse than the alternatives. There are valid reasons for using ProTools, specifically the workflow for some editing tasks, but mastering is not one of them. If your heart is set on ProTools then buy it, and make it your sole recording/mixing platform. It's not worth the money for just one task.
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Re: HELP BUILDING A 40.000 EUR SET-UP

Postby James Perrett » Mon Mar 19, 2018 11:17 pm

I'm wondering whether you might have an old version of Cubase. Older versions of Cubase are notoriously unreliable but newer versions are supposed to be much better. Protools has the biggest marketing budget but that doesn't mean that it is the best - there are plenty of other alternatives that are used professionally to get the job done.

I would also suggest that you stop reading all the hype and actually hire in some of the gear that you are thinking of for a few sessions. Some places will deduct the hire cost if you decide to buy. That way you can make your own informed decisions rather than trusting some famous producer/engineer to actually know what they are talking about (there are quite a few that actually don't have much idea of what they are doing technically, but get the job because they know what sounds good).
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Re: HELP BUILDING A 40.000 EUR SET-UP

Postby Sam Spoons » Mon Mar 19, 2018 11:52 pm

Just to back up Dave's comment re 100 watt stacks, I'm both a sound guy and a guitarist and gig regularly with an 18 watt combo. The days of the 100 watt stack are long past, many big name bands use a row of dummy stacks live with a small combo miked up behind it in the wings. The only thing your onstage amp has to do is match the level of the drummer (and not even that with decent foldback or IEMs) and the PA does the rest. Now to be fair, my 18 watt combo would not compete with a HM drummer without a little help (it is bl00dy loud if you can live with a little break up mind you) but I don't play metal so not a problem. In the studio you'll never get a big amp into it's sweet spot (actually, not often live either) so a small amp will often sound 'bigger' when recorded.

My bass player is a video graphics professional and uses a fully pimped iMac for his work, I bought his old (2008) Mac Pro a couple of years ago and, for my audio needs it is way beyond good enough. The recording I do is fairly much all live instruments and I attempt to recreate live performance in the studio so I'm not loading it up with VSTis and suchlike.

Anyway, good luck and I'm sure I'm not the only one here who envies your budget ;)
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Re: HELP BUILDING A 40.000 EUR SET-UP

Postby ore_terra » Tue Mar 20, 2018 9:17 am

Since it seems budget is not an issue here, I’d recommend you to stick to the 100w stack if that is what you want, but add a good attenuator to the pack. There are amazing attenuators these days such as the bad cat unleash, or the fryette something...

They give you flexibility and will keep sound guys happy :D
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Re: HELP BUILDING A 40.000 EUR SET-UP

Postby Andy McBain » Tue Mar 20, 2018 1:10 pm

vkonyofficial wrote:I am a Win User , but i'm aware that Logic and Mac are way more stable than Windows. I convinced myself working also on a Mac in some studios so ...i seen some awesome things about the workflow that a iMac gives you . The point of ProTools is the external Export Engine . It's the best for mastering, I'm gonna use ProTools just for mastering .

I'm afraid to say that my Mac / Logic Pro X setup crashes quite frequently :bouncy:

vkonyofficial wrote:i saw that Logic already has a necessary of instruments and Plug-ins for mastering , i don't know if it's enough and i don't know if you can crack anything on iMac , that's why I'm asking for your help

There's no reason you couldn't do a master using Logic's built in plugins and if there's no budget left for software, there's a lot of fantastic low price and even free plugins these days for that very purpose. Don't crack ;)
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Re: HELP BUILDING A 40.000 EUR SET-UP

Postby Dave Rowles » Tue Mar 20, 2018 1:13 pm

Andy McBain wrote:I'm afraid to say that my Mac / Logic Pro X setup crashes quite frequently :bouncy:

Mine doesn't :P

There's no reason you couldn't do a master using Logic's built in plugins and if there's no budget left for software, there's a lot of fantastic low price and even free plugins these days for that very purpose. Don't crack ;)

Totally agree, though even if you wanted to buy some third party plugs, there are loads of good options out there that do a great job and won't hurt your budget at all!
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Re: HELP BUILDING A 40.000 EUR SET-UP

Postby Sam Spoons » Tue Mar 20, 2018 2:37 pm

With a full personal/small business licence for Reaper costing only $60/£40 there is absolutely no excuse for pirating DAW software.
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Re: HELP BUILDING A 40.000 EUR SET-UP

Postby job » Tue Mar 20, 2018 3:25 pm

I think you should take a knee on spending for at least 3 months and do more research. Cripes, i'm almost nervous for you... :?
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