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Hearing Loss - Monitoring Question ???

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Re: Hearing Loss - Monitoring Question ???

Postby Matthew Seed » Tue Jul 17, 2018 1:48 pm

Thanks you all for this info its all really helping me.

garrettendi I have to say my problems are nothing compared to yours, I feel lucky and like i shouldn't even be moaning at all when i read your post. So thank you for commenting in such a positive way.

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Re: Hearing Loss - Monitoring Question ???

Postby garrettendi » Tue Jul 17, 2018 1:53 pm

Matthew Seed wrote:garrettendi I have to say my problems are nothing compared to yours, I feel lucky and like i shouldn't even be moaning at all when i read your post. So thank you for commenting in such a positive way.

I just don't want people to feel they immediately have to give up something they love when confronted with a disability. If you want to pursue this like I did, then make it happen.

[EDIT: I know you were asking for monitoring advice not saying you might give up, but I hope the sentiment of my posts are valid.]

The overwhelming response I've had from my peers on this forum and YouTube has been very positive, so I want to pass that onto you. Hearing loss is hearing loss, and it doesn't matter that someone has it "worse" than another.. When you spend your time working with audio, anything less than perfect will be an uphill struggle.

(As an aside last night I had a comment on YouTube basically telling me I might not want to pursue this... I read it, then shrugged it off. He's the only person that hasn't been encouraging).

I'm sure others might come with more suggestions, and please do let us know how you develop with overcoming the obstacle.
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Re: Hearing Loss - Monitoring Question ???

Postby Martin Walker » Tue Jul 17, 2018 3:58 pm

Apologies if someone else has already posted this (I didn't spot it, but hey, my eyes are going as well ;) )

As others have said, learning to work with any hearing limitations is always a good idea.

However, if your ears have differing responses, you can end up compensating too much and getting a lopsided mix you're not careful, so try swapping the stereo channels over from time to time, to make sure that your high end still sounds OK 'on the other side'.


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Re: Hearing Loss - Monitoring Question ???

Postby Mike Senior » Wed Jul 18, 2018 6:56 am

This is slightly off-topic, but it's a trick you might also find useful. My hearing is also somewhat asymmetrical in stereo, and although it doesn't usually bother me at all day to day, occasionally I can't be sure whether some source in a stereo recording is actually central in the image (say the snare in a stereo overheads recording). So I use the left-right flip switch on Brainworx's freeware Bx_solo plug-in to reverse the stereo image -- anything that doesn't change its apparent stereo positioning is centrally placed.
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Re: Hearing Loss - Monitoring Question ???

Postby Matthew Seed » Wed Jul 18, 2018 9:44 am

garrettendi just ignore those like the person on Youtube, what a crazy thing to say......Just because its difficult, give up. There is negative people all over, thanks for your comments i did indeed take them in the way you meant.

Mike Senior that is also a good method, I use a UAD Apollo Twin i am not sure if that has that flip switch but it does have the mono switch. So, Hugh's suggestion of listening in mono would also be useful.

Tonights the night when i try the trick of increasing the overall volume of the right speaker by around 10DB or what audibly feels balanced and see how i get on.

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Re: Hearing Loss - Monitoring Question ???

Postby Hugh Robjohns » Wed Jul 18, 2018 9:45 am

The other useful tool is a goniometer or a vector display. It can take a little while to learn how to read the display, but it's a really useful tool for checking the stereo image and how things are panned.
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Re: Hearing Loss - Monitoring Question ???

Postby garrettendi » Wed Jul 18, 2018 9:46 am

With regards to raising the volume of the right speaker, be careful you don't make the hearing worse!

Thanks for your kind comments :thumbup:
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Re: Hearing Loss - Monitoring Question ???

Postby Kwackman » Wed Jul 18, 2018 10:18 am

Matthew Seed wrote: i try the trick of increasing the overall volume of the right speaker by around 10DB or what audibly feels balanced and see how i get on.

This is only a suggestion, and you might well be ahead of me on this anyway!

Rather than turning the RHS amp up by 10 dB, turn it up 5dB and turn the LHS down 5dB.
This keeps your overall level about the same and your main monitoring level control can stay where it is.
Otherwise you may get your offset worked out, using the mono voice, then discover it's all too loud and have to start again, or having to turn your monitoring level control down near it's minimum setting where it might not be at it's most accurate.

Hope it goes well and helps your situation!
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Re: Hearing Loss - Monitoring Question ???

Postby Andy McBain » Wed Jul 18, 2018 1:17 pm

Hugh Robjohns wrote:
Brian M Rose wrote:Young people are beginning to exhibit the same hearing loss as the over 50's.

This is very true, sadly. The numbers of people under the age of 25 diagnosed with serious or severe deafness has risen very rapidly over the last two decades... And yes, earbuds and prolonged exposure to loud music is thought to be the reason.

H

There's been a recent increase in under 25's that collectively own enormous sound systems too, partly due to a resurgence in underground raves and free parties.

Photos of them standing happily in front of said systems with a meter that reads in excess of 120dB are worrying to say the least.
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Re: Hearing Loss - Monitoring Question ???

Postby Jorge » Wed Jul 18, 2018 4:21 pm

You also may want to play around with LR balance, EQ and loudness using good headphones rather than speaker monitors, to see how much you can improve your LR perception disparity in an ideal setting and whether you can then mix on headphones. Ask some friends with trained ears to help you judge how well your mixes done on headphones translate to other sound systems. Typically, SPLs used for monitoring are lower than general listening, often in the high 70s or low 80s range at your ears (dBA). This is in part to prevent music induced hearing loss, so I agree with the advice to keep your overall SPL well controlled by lowering the left rather than just raising the right.

Right/left differences of 35 dB at 4 kHz and 30 dB at 8 kHz are substantial and not usually seen with music induced hearing loss, which is generally bilateral. There are many possible causes of unilateral hearing loss, some are currently treatable medically and some are not, and early treatment is helpful for some causes. I suggest that, if you have not had a thorough examination by a physician specializing in ears and hearing (otologist or otolaryngologist, not GP or audiologist), you get this done to rule out treatable causes and evaluate you for possible benefit from a hearing aid. Hugh's point is a good one that both ears hear both speakers so addressing your LR difference at your ears rather than at the speakers would make sense.
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Re: Hearing Loss - Monitoring Question ???

Postby mick.n » Wed Jul 18, 2018 7:45 pm

garrettendi wrote:
(As an aside last night I had a comment on YouTube basically telling me I might not want to pursue this... I read it, then shrugged it off. He's the only person that hasn't been encouraging).
That's one of the reasons I rarely read YouTube comments.
I'm pleased you shrugged it off. :thumbup:
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Re: Hearing Loss - Monitoring Question ???

Postby Matthew Seed » Sat Jul 21, 2018 11:41 am

Thank you Thank you Thank you to you all for these amazing comments.

I am going to have a good read down them all again and then have a play and see what i feel is working for me. I appreciate it will never be perfect but as long as I can get it to a point where when i mix, everyone doesn't say "the balance is a bit off" then i suppose thats all that matters.

Also Jorge, my test was just a local, free audiologist test so maybe there is more i can do there too.

I really appreciate all your help and advice.
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Re: Hearing Loss - Monitoring Question ???

Postby Hugh Robjohns » Sat Jul 21, 2018 12:40 pm

Matthew Seed wrote:Also Jorge, my test was just a local, free audiologist test so maybe there is more i can do there too.

There's no maybe about it! Get your GP to organise a referral to an ENT consultant. I don't know your medical history, obviously, but if this hearing loss is a recent development it needs to be properly investigated urgently. If its a long term thing that's been getting slowly worse there is less urgency, but it still needs proper investigation.
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Re: Hearing Loss - Monitoring Question ???

Postby Matthew Seed » Sun Jul 22, 2018 4:44 pm

Thanks Hugh I will.

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Re: Hearing Loss - Monitoring Question ???

Postby Urthlupe » Wed Jul 25, 2018 9:55 am

Hi Matthew.....

Just had to post to reinforce the advice above.

I have a deteriorating loss in one ear which has turned out to be the result of a lump in my brain. I now enjoy an MRI every twelve months, but also a degree of confidence that at least what is happening is closely observed. You simply must follow this up and get some medical support.

But second - in my experience the best advice to follow is exactly that offered in the thread - simply allow your brain to habituate to the loss. I’m sure that, like me, you will be amazed at your capacity to permanently compensate. There are many advantages - you will still be able to fully function in any environment rather than only in an adjusted environment, but also, you may unfortunately find that this is the begining of a gradually increasing hearing deficiency, if so then you will naturally ‘roll with it’ rather than having to constantly adjust any hardware compensation you may have implimented.

Couple of other points - again mentioned above - integrating an intuitive understanding of metering (the goniometer is a great start) will allow you to most fully engage your eyesight in your workflow, mono mixing and understanding how small head movements reveal characteristics of your sound and stereo field are also a massive help.

For me critical lisening on headphones presents the greatest difficulty and I haven’t really found a way around it. I simply use headphones for functions where the loss is irrelevant or fold down to mono. Heyho..... at least I don’t have to fork out for a pair of Audeze :-).

I had many sweaty moments when this problem began Matthew, but now it has simply become a natural part of my life and I’m certain that I’m in no way special!

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