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Mac vs PC - sorry but I have to ask

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Re: Mac vs PC - sorry but I have to ask

Postby Pete Kaine » Tue Aug 21, 2018 5:25 pm

Dave Rowles wrote:Conversely, my wife hates MacOS and uses windows 10. Nothing but problems, and we're currently battling a weird disk usage issue that is beyond my ability to fix, so going to have to get someone to do it for us.

Is that a mechanical or a SSD?
If it's the former I might have a few suggestions.

OneWorld wrote:Why would my graphics card install an audio driver?

Audio over HDMI to your TV. And the copy protection stuff already mentioned.

ef37a wrote: The drivers in my KA6 are good enough that they just overrule it, not all might?

They only work for your KA6. They wouldn't make the audio over hdmi work for instance. However, if you don't need audio over hdmi you can just remove the audio over hdmi drivers.

James Perrett wrote:They do - it is called Windows Embedded and is totally configurable to the way you want it. The only problem is that it isn't available through the usual channels so you have to go to an embedded computer specialist to obtain it.

It's expensive and they don't want to sell it to anyone not building cash machines and hospital heart monitors. We've got access to it, but we're talking £600+ per machine to install it under current licencing. I understand this may well change in the near future and am currently keeping an eye on it in case there is an outbreak of sanity along the way.
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Re: Mac vs PC - sorry but I have to ask

Postby OneWorld » Tue Aug 21, 2018 5:57 pm

Pete Kaine wrote: I understand this may well change in the near future and am currently keeping an eye on it in case there is an outbreak of sanity along the way.

That's interesting to know - you might become known as the man that wrestled Win10 to the ground and tamed it!

I feel instinctively that at the core of Win10 there is an extremely capable and reliable OS, but it is lumbered with junk, like hitching a caravan to a Bugatti Veron, what would be the point

But I fear by the time MicroSoft start to listen, Win11 will be upon us
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Re: Mac vs PC - sorry but I have to ask

Postby OneWorld » Tue Aug 21, 2018 6:08 pm

blinddrew wrote:
OneWorld wrote:Why cannot Microsoft produced a mean and clean OS, no bloat, no bric-a-brac and penny muck.
I, for one, would happily pay a bit extra for this! Free install with all* the crud, £20 for a clean install with the option to download any of the freeware later.

* I'm assuming that the bloat ware is actually part of their profit mechanism? I.e. companies pay to have their software installed as part of the windows package?

I would more than happily cough up extra wonga to get an OS that allows the PC to be a fast, reliable working machine instead of a rag bag bells and whistles slapped together to make it look easy on the eye, like cosmetics I suppose, to some they enhance ones looks, but they don't actually 'do' anything.

And yes I take the point made by another poster, that a WinPC has to be all things to all people, with hardware and the associated drivers being written by all and sundry. But I thought signed drivers had gone a long way to address that issue.

And anyway, my PC is to a great extent stripped down......

i7 not overclocked, runs at 3.9GHz,
32gig RAM,
1 OS/Apps SSD, 1 Data SSD
MOX keyboard,
Virus Ti Desktop,
Roland XV5050,
XL1,
RME FF800,
MCU Pro,
UAD PCIe DUO,
TI Firewire Card,
Beatstep,
Cubase 8.5,
Halion 5,
Groove Agent 4,
Komplete 10,
Modular V3,
Synthmaster

and that's everything, hardly anything there that's 'exotic'
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Re: Mac vs PC - sorry but I have to ask

Postby Sam Spoons » Tue Aug 21, 2018 6:56 pm

OneWorld wrote:I would more than happily cough up extra wonga to get an OS that allows the PC to be a fast, reliable working machine instead of a rag bag bells and whistles slapped together to make it look easy on the eye, like cosmetics I suppose, to some they enhance ones looks, but they don't actually 'do' anything.

These guys did it back in the '95-2k/XP era https://www.litepc.com/products.html But I guess Windoze has just got to 'integrated' these days......
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Re: Mac vs PC - sorry but I have to ask

Postby Jadoube » Tue Aug 21, 2018 8:00 pm

I always found this whole thing gets down to drivers and plugins.

The Apple platform usually has an advantage because the drivers are a much smaller target for the limited resources of pro audio solution developers. That said if Apple pulls the rug from under you (high sierra lol); lookout! So try not to upgrade your OS if you are happy. RESIST!!

Apple computer + Apple Logic + "big-name" audio interface = very stable.
I use this formula with live musicians because it stays out of the way. Never crashed.
I use other tools for writing and mixing.

If you want to work away from this formula then you have to be prepared to get deeply involved. There are so many critical moving parts. Apple or Windows. I think Windows 10 is the better OS, but one has to be diligent about actively taking care to maintain that OS. The more powerful DAW is a custom Windows machine... but not many folks need that.

Myself I got tired of worrying about Windows compatibility issues and went over to Apple because of Thunderbolt. I am careful to avoid rocking the hardware boat and my only issues these days are the occasional poorly behaved VST.

OP I think that is your best bet.
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Re: Mac vs PC - sorry but I have to ask

Postby ConcertinaChap » Tue Aug 21, 2018 9:43 pm

Pete Kaine wrote:It's expensive and they don't want to sell it to anyone not building cash machines and hospital heart monitors.

Did anyone else feel a shiver of fear at the idea of Windows in a heart monitor. Cash machines I can cope with (I've seen a Windows error message on a couple of occasions on a cash machine and once a BSOD).

CC

PS on the High Sierra front, when you get a new machine it comes with the latest version of the OS whatever it is. In the event when I got my new machine last month it was a bit of an anticlimax - everything worked fine. Mind you, it's nearly a year since High Sierra came out so it nearly accords with my long-standing policy of keeping one OS version behind the current one, which works pretty well I find.
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Re: Mac vs PC - sorry but I have to ask

Postby Jadoube » Tue Aug 21, 2018 9:53 pm

ConcertinaChap wrote:PS on the High Sierra front, when you get a new machine it comes with the latest version of the OS whatever it is. In the event when I got my new machine last month it was a bit of an anticlimax - everything worked fine. Mind you, it's nearly a year since High Sierra came out so it nearly accords with my long-standing policy of keeping one OS version behind the current one, which works pretty well I find.

Yeah +1. I am now safely running High Sierra on my newest machine. A few flavours of weirdness with some of the more eccentric bits I use in my non-musical life... but all is well with the music software\hardware.
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Re: Mac vs PC - sorry but I have to ask

Postby CS70 » Tue Aug 21, 2018 10:34 pm

ConcertinaChap wrote:Did anyone else feel a shiver of fear at the idea of Windows in a heart monitor.

Coupled with known hardware, Windows (or any codebase) really is as rock solid as one wants.

In my previous job one of my depts was operating a large amount of cash machines, and the thing that created problems was invariably the hardware - which every now and then failed in ways that the driver had not anticipated.

That said, I'm scared of the 99% of the general purpose software which runs on generic systems - because that's practically impossible to get right.
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Re: Mac vs PC - sorry but I have to ask

Postby John Willett » Wed Aug 22, 2018 10:04 am

ConcertinaChap wrote:PS on the High Sierra front, when you get a new machine it comes with the latest version of the OS whatever it is. In the event when I got my new machine last month it was a bit of an anticlimax - everything worked fine. Mind you, it's nearly a year since High Sierra came out so it nearly accords with my long-standing policy of keeping one OS version behind the current one, which works pretty well I find.

If you have one of the new MacBook Pros with only the 4 x USB-C sockets - get one of THESE :thumbup:

Image

I was upset that Apple had done away with the MagLink on the new computers - but this OEM replacement is great :thumbup: A tiny MagLink adaptor that plugs securely into one of the USB-C sockets plus a replacement cable. Excellent. I got my new 2018 MacBook Pro last week and immediately ordered this cable. Works perfectly. :thumbup: and being rt.angled is better than the last version of the Apple MagLink which is straight. Oh - and it's a reversable connection unlike some of the other offerings and will take the full power needed for a 15" MBP (though mine is a 13").
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Re: Mac vs PC - sorry but I have to ask

Postby John Willett » Wed Aug 22, 2018 10:10 am

I have both PC and Mac - though about 8 years ago I switched to the Mac as I was getting so fed up with Windows.

After using a Mac, a PC seems so clunky in comparison.

So, I now use a Mac for almost everything.

However - my DAW is PC only :thumbdown: so I have to keep an old PC running just for the DAW. My old PC is a Samsung "lighter than Air" which a friend upgraded for me to double the size of the SSD and max out the RAM and put in Windows 10. Pretty slow to today's standards but still OK for running Sequoia 11.
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Re: Mac vs PC - sorry but I have to ask

Postby varunbkk » Wed Aug 22, 2018 10:56 am

There's really no other way to put this:

If you're even remotely serious about music production,
then get a Mac.

Windows 10 is a clusterf*** that is not a suitable environment for music production -
if you want overall stability and consistency with minimal interruptions esp. pesky updates.
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Re: Mac vs PC - sorry but I have to ask

Postby Hugh Robjohns » Wed Aug 22, 2018 11:03 am

varunbkk wrote:There's really no other way to put this:
If you're even remotely serious about music production, then get a Mac.

Complete and utter nonsense!

By all means choose a mac if you want to, but windows-based systems also work perfectly well and are used daily in all manner of music production roles by a huge number of high-end professionals around the world.

I'm all for the freedom of personal platform preferences, but I don't support and won't leave unchallenged baseless didactic pronouncements like this!

H
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Re: Mac vs PC - sorry but I have to ask

Postby ConcertinaChap » Wed Aug 22, 2018 11:58 am

*Absolutely* what Hugh said.

CC
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Re: Mac vs PC - sorry but I have to ask

Postby Forum Admin » Wed Aug 22, 2018 12:32 pm

Even as a committed life-long Mac user (since 1986, when we ditched Amstrad PC1512s for editorial production :D ) I have to agree totally with Hugh. Tons of pros across the globe are doing "serious" production work on their PCs.

But there is a certain je ne c'est quoi about using an Apple computer that appeals to my sensibilities and I too find Windows very "clunky" (but I use it out of the box on my family PC). They're both great tools -- just that PCs are lower cost, typically.
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Re: Mac vs PC - sorry but I have to ask

Postby CS70 » Wed Aug 22, 2018 12:33 pm

varunbkk wrote:There's really no other way to put this:

If you're even remotely serious about music production,
then get a Mac.

Windows 10 is a clusterf*** that is not a suitable environment for music production -
if you want overall stability and consistency with minimal interruptions esp. pesky updates.

Clueless.
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Re: Mac vs PC - sorry but I have to ask

Postby Zukan » Wed Aug 22, 2018 12:53 pm

I am seeing more and more pro producers using PCs running Win 10 and I made the switch based on their recommendations. I use a decent PC running Win 10 and the jump from 8 to 10 is really noticeable when working with the various DAWs.

A happy camper I be.
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Re: Mac vs PC - sorry but I have to ask

Postby Hugh Robjohns » Wed Aug 22, 2018 1:03 pm

Forum Admin wrote:They're both great tools -- just that PCs are lower cost, typically.

In my experience, if you buy/build a PC of similar quality and performance to a typical Mac there won't be that much of a price difference. The PC will be a little less expensive, but not by enough for a decent holiday in the sun! :lol:
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Re: Mac vs PC - sorry but I have to ask

Postby OneWorld » Wed Aug 22, 2018 1:11 pm

Zukan wrote:I am seeing more and more pro producers using PCs running Win 10 and I made the switch based on their recommendations. I use a decent PC running Win 10 and the jump from 8 to 10 is really noticeable when working with the various DAWs.

A happy camper I be.

Yes, so what do they do when like in my case, a Windows update leaves me with fuzzy screen fonts, which despite trawling the internet for a solution I cannot, and the 'freezing mouse/gui' do they just sit there and put up with it?

I never had these problems with Win7, and I would have been more than happy staying with Win7 except for the incessant pestering to upgrade to Win10, so I gave in, resistance is futile and have to say I was happy, until the anniversary/creator's or whatever other update it was.

I do wish Akai with their latest MPC offered streaming audio recording, I'd ditch the PC in an instant
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Re: Mac vs PC - sorry but I have to ask

Postby Forum Admin » Wed Aug 22, 2018 1:17 pm

Hugh Robjohns wrote:In my experience, if you buy/build a PC of similar quality and performance to a typical Mac there won't be that much of a price difference. The PC will be a little less expensive, but not by enough for a decent holiday in the sun! :lol:

So the £99 laptop I just bought from Office Outlet won't cut the mustard? Better cancel the summer holiday I booked... :D :D :D
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Re: Mac vs PC - sorry but I have to ask

Postby Zukan » Wed Aug 22, 2018 1:20 pm

I hear you but I can only go by my experiences and I have learned the hard way not to install any updates until I have researched the side effects. I used to only use Macs for music until they became unaffordable and I had to make the switch. It has taken me some time but I now have a stable pc system and am not in the mood for another change.
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