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Mac vs PC - sorry but I have to ask

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Re: Mac vs PC - sorry but I have to ask

Postby johnny h » Wed Aug 22, 2018 1:22 pm

OneWorld wrote:Yes, so what do they do when like in my case, a Windows update leaves me with fuzzy screen fonts, which despite trawling the internet for a solution I cannot, and the 'freezing mouse/gui' do they just sit there and put up with it?
If its ruining your workflow, just get rid of it. Life is too short!
I do wish Akai with their latest MPC offered streaming audio recording, I'd ditch the PC in an instant
Hate to break it to you, but Akai are using Windows embedded on their new MPCs! You're basically buying a cheap netbook attached to a control service (for a premium price).
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Re: Mac vs PC - sorry but I have to ask

Postby CS70 » Wed Aug 22, 2018 2:06 pm

Hugh Robjohns wrote:
Forum Admin wrote:They're both great tools -- just that PCs are lower cost, typically.

In my experience, if you buy/build a PC of similar quality and performance to a typical Mac there won't be that much of a price difference. The PC will be a little less expensive, but not by enough for a decent holiday in the sun! :lol:

I think there's quite a bit of difference between buying and building. If you buy, a PC of equivalent power will cost you a little less, but perhaps not so much to be worth the hassle.

But if you build one, especially by using perfectly fine second-hand parts or less than bleeding edge components, the savings are potentially huge, also because you'll be able to pay for the power the parts you need (graphics cards, say, not big priority for audio).. You put in some knowledge , skills and time, and parts have a tendency drop in price in a way disproportionate to the their performance as soon something a trifle better appears on the market. So you can get an awesome bit-crunching machine for much less than buying new, definitely saving more than enough for a decent holiday in the sun. Or at least a charter :)

I guess you can do the same with Hackintosh but I have no direct experience of that.
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Re: Mac vs PC - sorry but I have to ask

Postby ConcertinaChap » Wed Aug 22, 2018 2:44 pm

There is definitely an Apple tax, one that I'm, well, not happy but willing to pay. Apart from the occasional wandering idiot or professional troll I think the Apple / PC wars are largely over. You take the path you want depending on your own personal criteria and if cost is high on the list that may well steer you away from Apple. Fine. No worries, you'll very probably not lose out in any meaningful way from going that route.

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Re: Mac vs PC - sorry but I have to ask

Postby John Willett » Wed Aug 22, 2018 3:06 pm

Forum Admin wrote: -- just that PCs are lower cost, typically.

Not that much - if you compare a PC to the same high spec. of a Mac, the price is not that much different.

But - you can get low spec. PCs a lot cheaper than any Mac.
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Re: Mac vs PC - sorry but I have to ask

Postby johnny h » Wed Aug 22, 2018 3:42 pm

CS70 wrote:I guess you can do the same with Hackintosh but I have no direct experience of that.
Its great if you have a huge amount of time on your hands that you don't want to put to good use instead!
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Re: Mac vs PC - sorry but I have to ask

Postby ConcertinaChap » Wed Aug 22, 2018 3:49 pm

A different thread has just reminded me of something that Macs are clearly superior to Windows in and that's USB Audio 2.0 compliance. It's fully supported on Macs and has been for a long time, meaning that many audio interfaces work out of the box 24 bit 96kHz without needing any additional drivers. Until recently Windows only supported v1.0 of this spec, meaning only audio interfaces that went no higher than 16bit 48kHz could be used without drivers.

Then, in W10 Creators Edn M$ announced they were supporting USB Audio 2.0. But there was a catch, it's only supported for playback not for recording, that's unchanged (Creators Edition?). Apparently it's there for the Hi-Fi fraternity and their posh DACS, not for us. That's how things currently stand and M$ still show no signs of implementing the full standard. Why?

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Re: Mac vs PC - sorry but I have to ask

Postby redlester » Wed Aug 22, 2018 4:23 pm

ConcertinaChap wrote:PS on the High Sierra front, when you get a new machine it comes with the latest version of the OS whatever it is. In the event when I got my new machine last month it was a bit of an anticlimax - everything worked fine. Mind you, it's nearly a year since High Sierra came out so it nearly accords with my long-standing policy of keeping one OS version behind the current one, which works pretty well I find.

As documented elsewhere on the forum, I was a PC user since pre-Windows and only changed over to Mac four months ago, so all I have ever known is High Sierra. Seems to work pretty flawlessly, but I do know what you mean and I suppose I will wait a long time before jumping into Mojave. In fact I will wait until there is written confirmation from all the software companies that I rely on that they are compatible. The "dark mode" can wait a while I think.

Regarding not connecting to the internet on the music computer, that simply wouldn't work for me. I regularly have to Google things or watch YouTube tutorials while I have my DAW open! :oops:
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Re: Mac vs PC - sorry but I have to ask

Postby desmond » Wed Aug 22, 2018 4:36 pm

High Sierra is generally fine but it kills support for garbage collection, and there is one particular set of legacy pro audio apps that won't work on it anymore, which is a bit of a pain for me.

Moving on, the next OS after Mojave looks to kill 32-bit support, so no old 32-bit apps will directly run on that (unless they include an emulation layer, or something.)
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Re: Mac vs PC - sorry but I have to ask

Postby ConcertinaChap » Wed Aug 22, 2018 4:52 pm

desmond wrote:Moving on, the next OS after Mojave looks to kill 32-bit support, so no old 32-bit apps will directly run on that (unless they include an emulation layer, or something.)

Indeed. It was very noticeable how many applications as I installed or ran them got the "Not optimised for High Sierra" message, which is Apple's way of saying they're 32 bit. Fortunately most of the messages were generated by installers rather than the apps themselves so the fix for the makers should be easy and now the apps are in place they shouldn't hit trouble when I (eventually) move onto a 64 bit only OS.

The only significant software I couldn't get to run was M$ Office 2011. So, now I'm happily using Libre Office.

redlester wrote:I regularly have to Google things or watch YouTube tutorials while I have my DAW open! :oops:

Hmph! Likewise :(

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Re: Mac vs PC - sorry but I have to ask

Postby Jadoube » Wed Aug 22, 2018 5:05 pm

desmond wrote:Moving on, the next OS after Mojave looks to kill 32-bit support, so no old 32-bit apps will directly run on that (unless they include an emulation layer, or something.)

Legacy support is one space where Windows truly shines. You can get almost any ancient thing to work on Windows 10 so long as you have the required hardware to support it and the will to fiddle around with it. ( I don't! :thumbup: Life is too short! )

I think I will be on High Sierra for quite some time; no 32b will just be a pain in the a** for quite awhile. Who knows what might need to be abandoned... sigh
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Re: Mac vs PC - sorry but I have to ask

Postby ManFromGlass » Wed Aug 22, 2018 5:31 pm

Only Sierra for me. Some fave plugs will be gone with an upgrade. Same with iOS - staying at 10 as there are some seriously weird and cool 32 bit apps I will lose. And yet some some sneaky bastards at Apple have managed to upload iOS 11 to my devices without even asking. They only ask if I want to install it. My response might get me banned from the Forums if I type it.
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Re: Mac vs PC - sorry but I have to ask

Postby Jadoube » Wed Aug 22, 2018 5:44 pm

ManFromGlass wrote:Only Sierra for me.

One thing that happens with a Mac is you are stuck to a minimum OS version when you purchase a new computer... thus I am using High Sierra for example. It's definitely something to be aware of if you buy a new Mac. Some of your preferred software might not be compatible if the OS release is relatively "green". The lack of 32b support might make a new mac particularly risky for audio users when that OS is released.

A checkbox for the Windows column...
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Re: Mac vs PC - sorry but I have to ask

Postby desmond » Wed Aug 22, 2018 5:58 pm

Jadoube wrote:One thing that happens with a Mac is you are stuck to a minimum OS version when you purchase a new computer...

They prevent you from installing older versions of OSX? Or booting from another disk or partition?
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Re: Mac vs PC - sorry but I have to ask

Postby Jadoube » Wed Aug 22, 2018 6:11 pm

desmond wrote:
Jadoube wrote:One thing that happens with a Mac is you are stuck to a minimum OS version when you purchase a new computer...

They prevent you from installing older versions of OSX? Or booting from another disk or partition?

I think they prevent you from installing an older version of macOS/OSX... but I haven't tried in years and years. Should be no problem to boot a different partition... never had trouble with that. But again... not sure how well one would do with a version of the OS older than the version your machine shipped with. Perhaps a super OSX nerd can chime in...?

For sure you could have problems with missing hardware support...
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Re: Mac vs PC - sorry but I have to ask

Postby James Perrett » Wed Aug 22, 2018 9:19 pm

Can you use OSX in a virtual machine in order to run an older version of the operating system?

I've just set up a Windows XP virtual machine on my Windows 10 computer using Virtual Box as some of my old software was behaving strangely in Windows 10.
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Re: Mac vs PC - sorry but I have to ask

Postby Jadoube » Wed Aug 22, 2018 9:30 pm

James Perrett wrote:Can you use OSX in a virtual machine in order to run an older version of the operating system?

I've just set up a Windows XP virtual machine on my Windows 10 computer using Virtual Box as some of my old software was behaving strangely in Windows 10.

I believe you can only run a virtual OSX machine on another Mac using VMWare Fusion or Parallels. I have never needed to do it but it appears to be supported.

A quick google says you can do it on a PC but you need to apply a 3rd party patch (hack)... so not officially supported and you are into naughty-ware. Basically another flavour of hackintosh.
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Re: Mac vs PC - sorry but I have to ask

Postby CS70 » Wed Aug 22, 2018 10:55 pm

johnny h wrote:
CS70 wrote:I guess you can do the same with Hackintosh but I have no direct experience of that.
Its great if you have a huge amount of time on your hands that you don't want to put to good use instead!

Well, of course is money is no issue or you don't pay for the kit you just buy what you want, nothing wrong with that.

To each their own, but for me, to save in the order of hundreds of pounds means more money available for marketing, ads, mics, studio time or stuff that makes far more difference than having a shiny stylized apple on the top of my laptop's lid..
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Re: Mac vs PC - sorry but I have to ask

Postby desmond » Wed Aug 22, 2018 11:15 pm

James Perrett wrote:Can you use OSX in a virtual machine in order to run an older version of the operating system?

Yep - I have a 10.6 Install in a VM for some older PPC apps...
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Re: Mac vs PC - sorry but I have to ask

Postby varunbkk » Thu Aug 23, 2018 3:25 am

Hugh Robjohns wrote:
varunbkk wrote:There's really no other way to put this:
If you're even remotely serious about music production, then get a Mac.

Complete and utter nonsense!

By all means choose a mac if you want to, but windows-based systems also work perfectly well and are used daily in all manner of music production roles by a huge number of high-end professionals around the world.

I'm all for the freedom of personal platform preferences, but I don't support and won't leave unchallenged baseless didactic pronouncements like this!

H

Sorry, I respectfully disagree.

Although my comment is somewhat sensationalist and based on my anecdotal experiences, I stand by my conviction(s).

I will hazard a guess and say that out of the world's top 20-30 odd studios, a majority would probably be on the MAC platform.

Similarly, I would also hazard a guess and say that the majority of the world's top-tier mixers, producers (and performers i.e. those who do live sets and/or DJ'ing) are probably on the MAC platform too.

The point being that every producer aspires and dreams to achieve a level of technical expertise, production values, personal fulfillment and ultimately, financial success.

Invariably, he/she will look up to what (if I may quote you) "high-end professionals" are using as part of their production arsenal.

Here's a list of some A-list/top-tier mixers that are on the MAC:

Chris-Lord Alge
Dave Pensado
Tony Maserati
Andrew Scheps
Manny Marroquin

Here's some more still:

Warren Huart
Fab Dupont
Yoad Nevo

Apart from the above, here's some top-tier dance music producers who are on the MAC platform - furthermore, some of them utilize MAC's not only for music production, but for live-sets and DJ'ing as well:

Paul Van Dyk
Armin Van Buuren
Ferry Corsten
Above and Beyond
Steve Aoki
Sasha
Laidback Luke

I could probably rattle off 20-30 more odd names, the list goes on and on.

Perhaps you could indulge me and provide some names of some of these high-end professionals who purportedly use Windows as their OS of choice for their production needs?
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Re: Mac vs PC - sorry but I have to ask

Postby job » Thu Aug 23, 2018 8:07 am

It wouldn't matter if you could rattle of a million names it still doesn't say why one should only conisder a Mac if they're serious about music production. Those people are successful because they do themselves and a lot of people like what they do. They're not successful because they use a particular brand of computer.

I think a large reason why many see Windows as unstable is because Windows allows you to tweak the system pretty extensively to your particular needs. People know this and so they go hunting for tweaks. They then read and copy a bunch of websites with no real clue and then hur dur i tweak stuff i is leet. Fast forward 50 website tips later and meh, Windows is so bad and terrible i think i'll get a Mac...

If you want stability and don't really know what you're doing then instal it on quality hardware and leave it alone. Just like you have to do with Macs.

Cheap and underpowered Windows machines are also ubiquitous so we're forever hearing 'Windows is crap. It's so slow!'. They then drop 2k on a posh box and then it's 'ah, Apple is so much better!'. Well, err, yeah.
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