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Rare Routing Challenge - Please Help!!

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Rare Routing Challenge - Please Help!!

PostPosted: Tue Sep 11, 2018 8:52 am
by neogenicist
Hello, I'm new to the forum so I hope I'm not repeating something. If someone figures this out I'm going to freak out with joy.

I want to record a playback loop, while recording another instrument to the loop, as well as my voice talking about what I'm doing (which means lots of stopping and starting of the playback audio) while I'm doing it. But here's the kicker: I want multi-track audio.

I've discovered multiple ways to pull this off using a laptop, but all of these scenarios require sending the audio back to the primary recording computer as a stereo feed--but I don't want that! I want multitrack audio the WHOLE TIME.

I have a Tascam DM-3200 as my primary recording device (and Cubase 9) but am willing to buy an additional interface if it solves this problem. The issue is, I need to make sure all of this audio is "sync-able" in post because it's all going to video; meaning, I can't have a bunch of little snippets, and besides, it needs to be organic. I can route the DM anyway you can think to route anything, but it doesn't resolve the fact that I have to hit stop to set a loop, or that the loop itself creates an un-sync-able audio situation.

I feel like I'm doing a poor job of explaining this, so if you have questions, please ask. I would REALLY appreciate any help here--I've spent an absurd amount of time trying to engineer a solution for this problem.


Re: Rare Routing Challenge - Please Help!!

PostPosted: Tue Sep 11, 2018 4:33 pm
by molecular
Yeah, I'm not 100% sure I understand what you're atttempting.

Are you making an instructional video? One which requires you to show how a loop is made on the tascam, but while filming it, you want to also record multi-track audio of the looped audio, plus your speaking voice etc to a laptop?

Is that right?

EDIT: have just googled the tascam - so you're using that as your interface for cubase, and you are using cubase to create the loop.

So you need to run an additional DAW to record the multitrack audio for the video, while you muck about in cubase, stopping it and starting it and so on...?

Re: Rare Routing Challenge - Please Help!!

PostPosted: Wed Sep 12, 2018 2:06 am
by neogenicist
You pretty much nailed it.

As you said, I'm not making the loop on the Tascam--I'm actually just looping audio in Cubase and, for instance, trying different bass parts to that loop. But I want all of that to be recorded in real time, in addition to the narration, so that it can be synced with the video.

But yeah, I think that I need to run an additional DAW, but I don't really know. I was hoping someone wiser than me would have a solution here because I've spent countless hours trying to figure it out. When we are recording live, everything is fine because we can sync that easily. But when we are trying to write new parts to the playback, THAT is where the recording issue arises.

Any advice?

By the way. I've never been much of a forum person, but I really appreciate the fact that you are a random stranger helping me work through a problem. It brings me hope in humanity.

Re: Rare Routing Challenge - Please Help!!

PostPosted: Wed Sep 12, 2018 3:05 am
by Matt Houghton
Is this a screencast video tutorial? If so, there are ways to record the output of Cubase and a separate narration mic to different channels in some screen recording apps. I do that in Camtasia on Windows and Screenflow on Mac, for example.

What video software are you using?

Oh... and there are tape-machine style plugins that record to WAV that can be inserted oin your DAW project and synced with the DAW transport contros. Years ago I used TapeIt for that. I believe Melda have one now -- might even be in their free bundle -- though I've not checked out if that can sync to the transport.

Re: Rare Routing Challenge - Please Help!!

PostPosted: Wed Sep 12, 2018 10:26 am
by molecular
Depending on your computer, you could download a second DAW such as Reaper and simply assign the Tascam as the IO device for that as well as cubase. Then open both programmes and send the audio outs from cubase to additional channel inputs in the tascam that you can then route back into Reaper.

If your voice mike doesn't need to go through cubase, you can put that on a channel which is sent straight to Reaper...

... if that makes sense. I don't know the tascam desk but if it's anything like a behringer X32 then the interface ins and outs can be assigned to almost anything in 8 channel blocks.

Re: Rare Routing Challenge - Please Help!!

PostPosted: Wed Sep 12, 2018 7:41 pm
by Matt Houghton
Sorry, I think I was rather confused by your first post. I see you need to capture everything in real time and multitrack. If I were doing this with a screen recording, I'd use Screenflow on a Mac... that can capture all audio channels on your audio interface as a poly WAV file. You then just discard which channels you don't want. Everything would be in sync straight away — recorded screen, recorded webcam (there are ways to use your DSLR as a webcam if you want to capture decent video in real time this way...), narration, and your recorded looped playback, so no syncing would be required in post.

But I didn't find any single screen/video app on Windows that could handle multitrack audio from the DAW and allow you to record a narration mic separately. So probably the best bet is to use a second DAW to capture the result, as others have described. If you can, send a feed to your video software to make alignment easier.

Re: Rare Routing Challenge - Please Help!!

PostPosted: Fri Sep 21, 2018 7:18 am
by neogenicist
Yes. A second DAW is most definitely necessary. That might be the only thing I DO know. I don't know of a way to loop playback audio inside of a DAW, while recording various takes to it, while recording all of that in real time, multi-tracked.

The problem is how to get it to a second DAW...and back--multi-tracked.

e.g. Let's say I record drums and guitar, while communicating what I'm doing through VOX mics (2 people). This audio is live and will be easy to capture. But then I want to record overdubs to that audio, and so I will want to listen to a loop of said audio to write parts to. The kicker is that I want to RECORD my attempts at writing, as well as the conversations being held about said writing. But also, I want all of this to be multi-track (non-bounced or summed) audio.

As far as recording to 2 DAW's at once: which OS or hardware allows a single audio driver to do 2 opposite functions at once? I'm not being a smarty-pants--I'm serious: how can I hit record on one DAW to capture start/stop audio from the same source, inside the same DAW? ...

No matter what we consider, we always end up having to record a stereo out at some point.

I understand that there's a possibility that there is no solution here. In fact, we've sort of arrived at that hopeless point already; at least, one of us has-- but the other is scouring the internet hoping for an experienced engineer with some Jedi I/O routing powers that can think of something that we aren't considering.

Any help is greatly appreciated. Seriously.

Re: Rare Routing Challenge - Please Help!!

PostPosted: Fri Sep 21, 2018 2:42 pm
by molecular
As far as I can tell, if your first DAW is the one you are recording various takes in, then you only need to get that multi channel audio to a second DAW. You don’t need to get it back again...

You won’t be able to run two instances of Cubase on the same computer, but I have had logic and pro tools both open on Mac OS, recording the same inputs from the same sound card. I’m not sure what would happen if you tried to use the same outs but you don’t need to.

I think what I would try, though, would be to make an aggregate device using your tascam and a programme like Soundflower which routes up to 16 channels from one piece of software to another.

Then you could set up DAW one to use the tascam channels of the aggregate device as inputs, and then use pre fader sends from each channel to the sound flower channels of the aggregate device to act as direct outs, while stilll using your main mix bus back out through the tascam.

Then open a second daw and open some empty tracks each recording one of the soundflower channels.

You’ll need to test it, I’m sure, but in theory that should allow you to hit record on DAW 2 and then forget about it. Do whatever you want in DAW 1 as long as you are careful to have tracks monitoring the input when not playing back. When you’re done, DAW 2 should have it all there multi tracked.

I think?

Re: Rare Routing Challenge - Please Help!!

PostPosted: Sat Sep 22, 2018 6:54 pm
by neogenicist
We sort of had that idea, but gave up on it because we can't get Soundflower and we didn't realize ReWire didn't have to have playback/record synced. Do you think ReWire is even the right thing to use or is there a better alternative to Soundflower?