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recording a Brassband

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recording a Brassband

Postby Janneman » Thu Nov 22, 2018 9:32 am

Goodmorning,

Someone aks me to record his brassband. they are playing music from Austria.

My idea is

drums is only a bassdrum, snare and cymbal

one mic for the bassdrum and 2 mics as overhead for the complet set


7 brass players on each side of the drums

2 mics on each side in ORTF

1 vocal

i do have a 8 canal focusrite interface.

Canal 1 Bassdrum
Canal 2 overhead drums left
Canal 3 overhead drums right
Canal 4 and 5 brass section left
Canal 6 and 7 brass section right
Canal 8 vocals

the question is what kind of mics for the brass section. small or Large diagram mics.

thanks for the help.
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Re: recording a Brassband

Postby blinddrew » Thu Nov 22, 2018 10:28 am

Morning Janneman, this thread might be useful if you've not read it already: https://www.soundonsound.com/forum/view ... 401#129780

Aural Reject is something of an expert in this field if he's still hanging around.
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Re: recording a Brassband

Postby Bob Bickerton » Thu Nov 22, 2018 11:10 am

In theory if the band is well balanced and you’re recording in a reasonable room, you should be able to capture everything with a stereo pair plus one spot mic for the vocalist.

This technique can form the basis of your approach, but then give yourself a few options as well. For large ensembles I tend to use an ORTF pair plus an Omni A/B pair (at around 60cm) on one bar as my main array. This gives me options to balance a more direct (sometimes clinical) sound with more room (spacious) sound.

I’ll then think about where I need spots mics, either for balance/definition.

For the ORTF pair I’ll use either SDCs (MKH8040s) or MDCs (TLM193s) and for omnis MKH8020s.

Certainly the vocalist will need a spot mic, plus you may need something on any instrumental soloists. The drums may need one or two overheads and maybe something on bass drum depending on how balanced they are but you may not end up using them in the final mix.

Of paramount importance is the acoustics of the room.

Bob
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Re: recording a Brassband

Postby The Elf » Thu Nov 22, 2018 11:30 am

I think Bob has nailed it.

You seem to be approaching this like a rock band and there's really no need. A stereo pair and a couple of spots for soloists is the way I'd go.
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Re: recording a Brassband

Postby John Willett » Thu Nov 22, 2018 12:45 pm

I agree with Bob and Elf.

In fact I, also, like the ORTF + 60cm Omni pair approach.

Keep it simple - the band should be able to balance themselves and, in the right acoustic, you should end up with a great recording. :thumbup:
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Re: recording a Brassband

Postby Hugh Robjohns » Thu Nov 22, 2018 1:09 pm

Janneman wrote:My idea is...

Yes, that sounds an entirely reasonable approach to me. The other replies all make perfectly valid points if the band is well balanced internally, and keeping things simple is always a wise approach, but your approach is fairly simple and logical and should work well. It will also give you some useful options in the mix if necessary -- but you'll need to work hard with your mic placement and angling to minimise unwanted spill between sections and mics.

What we don't know, of course, is if you are recording a live public performance or a studio session -- and that would have a big impact on the best approach.

the question is what kind of mics for the brass section. small or Large diagram mics.

No hard and fast rules there. I've used both, and seen other engineers use both in different situations. Personally I tend to prefer small-diaphragm mics where possible, but sometimes the multi-pattern options on LDCs can be helpful. If spill is a problem, small-diaphragm mics will tend to give you cleaner results as their off-axis sound capture is less coloured than most large-diaphragm mics.

Hope that helps

H
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Re: recording a Brassband

Postby Janneman » Thu Nov 22, 2018 1:51 pm

Thank you for a the replies. I missed that one whats allready on the site.

I was think about 2 mics in ORTF position aswell and 3 mics for the drums and ons for the female singer. Whats is the best distance from the stage and the height of placing the mics.

I own two Rode M3 mics. Will they do the trick?

different mics for the drums and female singer.

this will make it al lot easier to record.

The place is good, dry sound. and can close a hugh curtain to make the room smaller to give it better acoustics.

i've made a recording with a Tascam last Sunday. I was about 10 meter away from the band. In my ears it's not that bad at all. is it possible to post a fragment foor this group??

thank you all very much for the very quick replies.
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Re: recording a Brassband

Postby Janneman » Thu Nov 22, 2018 1:58 pm

blinddrew wrote:Morning Janneman, this thread might be useful if you've not read it already: https://www.soundonsound.com/forum/view ... 401#129780

Aural Reject is something of an expert in this field if he's still hanging around.

thank you very much
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Re: recording a Brassband

Postby Janneman » Thu Nov 22, 2018 1:59 pm

Bob Bickerton wrote:In theory if the band is well balanced and you’re recording in a reasonable room, you should be able to capture everything with a stereo pair plus one spot mic for the vocalist.

This technique can form the basis of your approach, but then give yourself a few options as well. For large ensembles I tend to use an ORTF pair plus an Omni A/B pair (at around 60cm) on one bar as my main array. This gives me options to balance a more direct (sometimes clinical) sound with more room (spacious) sound.

I’ll then think about where I need spots mics, either for balance/definition.

For the ORTF pair I’ll use either SDCs (MKH8040s) or MDCs (TLM193s) and for omnis MKH8020s.

Certainly the vocalist will need a spot mic, plus you may need something on any instrumental soloists. The drums may need one or two overheads and maybe something on bass drum depending on how balanced they are but you may not end up using them in the final mix.

Of paramount importance is the acoustics of the room.

Bob


thank you very much
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Re: recording a Brassband

Postby Janneman » Thu Nov 22, 2018 1:59 pm

John Willett wrote:I agree with Bob and Elf.

In fact I, also, like the ORTF + 60cm Omni pair approach.

Keep it simple - the band should be able to balance themselves and, in the right acoustic, you should end up with a great recording. :thumbup:


thank you very much
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Re: recording a Brassband

Postby Janneman » Thu Nov 22, 2018 1:59 pm

Hugh Robjohns wrote:
Janneman wrote:My idea is...

Yes, that sounds an entirely reasonable approach to me. The other replies all make perfectly valid points if the band is well balanced internally, and keeping things simple is always a wise approach, but your approach is fairly simple and logical and should work well. It will also give you some useful options in the mix if necessary -- but you'll need to work hard with your mic placement and angling to minimise unwanted spill between sections and mics.

What we don't know, of course, is if you are recording a live public performance or a studio session -- and that would have a big impact on the best approach.

the question is what kind of mics for the brass section. small or Large diagram mics.

No hard and fast rules there. I've used both, and seen other engineers use both in different situations. Personally I tend to prefer small-diaphragm mics where possible, but sometimes the multi-pattern options on LDCs can be helpful. If spill is a problem, small-diaphragm mics will tend to give you cleaner results as their off-axis sound capture is less coloured than most large-diaphragm mics.

Hope that helps

H


thank you very much
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Re: recording a Brassband

Postby Mike Stranks » Thu Nov 22, 2018 8:49 pm

I'm quite a fan of the 4-mic Faulkner Array in these situations. See: .

Only other thing to add to the excellent advice already given is to give yourself plenty of headroom when recording/tracking
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Re: recording a Brassband

Postby Hugh Robjohns » Thu Nov 22, 2018 8:53 pm

:D Really great to see you back posting with us Mike. :thumbup:

H
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Re: recording a Brassband

Postby The Elf » Thu Nov 22, 2018 9:05 pm

Hugh Robjohns wrote::D Really great to see you back posting with us Mike. :thumbup:
+99 :clap: :thumbup:
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Re: recording a Brassband

Postby Sam Spoons » Thu Nov 22, 2018 9:38 pm

:thumbup:
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Re: recording a Brassband

Postby zenguitar » Fri Nov 23, 2018 1:23 am

I've missed you Mike. Nice to hear from you again and hope you are well :D

Andy :beamup:
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Re: recording a Brassband

Postby Bob Bickerton » Fri Nov 23, 2018 1:33 am

Yes, great to hear from you again Mike! :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:

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Re: recording a Brassband

Postby Janneman » Fri Nov 23, 2018 12:16 pm

Will Rode m3 do the trick?

I will place the band in half a circle with the drums in the middle of the half a circle( on the outside) and the horns left and right.
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Re: recording a Brassband

Postby Mike Stranks » Fri Nov 23, 2018 1:05 pm

Janneman wrote:Will Rode m3 do the trick?

M3 is a good mic in its class, but it wouldn't be my first choice for a recording such as this. What other mics do you have, or could you borrow?

If you could afford them then the Rode M5s punch above their weight - I'm been quietly impressed with the bang-for-buck they offer. Of course, if you can splash some cash then there's a whole world of mics out there that would suit!

The Line Audio OM1 and CM3 are exceptional mics for the money - although you wouldn't really be advised to use the CM3 in ORTF as it's a 'wide' cardioid.
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Re: recording a Brassband

Postby blinddrew » Fri Nov 23, 2018 2:26 pm

And another 'Welcome back' from me. :)
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