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NT-SF1

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Re: NT-SF1

PostPosted: Fri Mar 08, 2019 11:44 pm
by ManFromGlass
Super! I’ll get right over there.

Re: NT-SF1

PostPosted: Fri Mar 08, 2019 11:50 pm
by Sam Inglis
ConcertinaChap wrote:With my normal example of the circle of shanty singers standing round the mic I'm thinking I'd use the Blumlein to give the basic stereo image of all the singers and and focus in on whoever's leading the shanty at the time using the cardioid.

Really glad to hear you've taken the plunge into the Ambisonics rabbit hole, I'm sure it will bring you a huge amount of fun and satisfaction!

Theoretically at least Blumlein isn't recommended for recording from the centre of a circle because in a Blumlein array you have a 90 degree acceptance angle at the front and back, and 90 degree wedges either side where weird phasey stuff goes on. If you want 360-degree coverage then back-to-back cardioids might be a better starting point.

Re: NT-SF1

PostPosted: Sat Mar 09, 2019 12:05 am
by ManFromGlass
We recorded a CD using the original Calrec. We set up in a circle around the mic and played all tracks live. The thing was that one of our players always played louder than the rest of us. Twist of a knob and a wonderful balance was achieved.
I’m looking forward to CC’s experiences with this new mic.

Re: NT-SF1

PostPosted: Sat Mar 09, 2019 8:00 am
by ConcertinaChap
Thanks, Sam. I was already seeing some uncomfortable drawbacks with that. You've explained why.

MFG: that's precisely the sort of control I'm looking for :)

March 24th is when I'm doing my first serious work with it when I record the Bath City Waits. I'm hoping that placing the mic in the centre of them is going to feel a lot more natural for them than the usual close miking.

CC

Re: NT-SF1

PostPosted: Sat Mar 09, 2019 1:29 pm
by ManFromGlass
Perhaps your adventures would make a fascinating multi-part article here?
The good, the bad, the awesome. :thumbup:

Re: NT-SF1

PostPosted: Sat Mar 09, 2019 7:57 pm
by ConcertinaChap
Well certainly when I have more to say I'll say it here.

Cheers,

CC

Re: NT-SF1

PostPosted: Tue Mar 26, 2019 6:28 pm
by ConcertinaChap
Well I now have something to show for my adventures. I recorded the Bath City Jubilee Waits last Sunday and here is one of the tunes:-

https://soundcloud.com/mr-punchs-studio ... f-the-west

It's called Lantern of the West and was composed and arranged by my wife Anne Gregson. The NT-SF1 proved a major boon during the recording in that the musicians sat in a semi-circle around the mic, meaning I avoided the mess of having to close mic seven musicians while they had somewhere to put their music stands, plus of course the NT-SF1 isn't anything like as intimidating to amateur musicians. Of course you don't get something entirely for nothing and so there was a significant period of time during mixdown setting up the virtual equivalents of those seven cardioid mics. The mixer looked like this:

Image

There's a quite a lot of spill in the virtual mics (though there would be a fair bit with real mics) so I arranged them in the stereo field more-or-less as they were in reality, though the mic did give me some flexibility in placement and similarly in recording levels that I would not have had with a conventional stereo mic. That's the way I've come to look at it, as a sort of "super-stereo" mic, with the advantages of a stereo mic plus to a useful degree some of the advantages of close miking.

There is the odd minor fluff from the musicians you can hear but nothing significant and the Waits seem pretty pleased with what's coming out of it. I'm chuffed with the mic; it seems to be delivering on its promise.

CC

Re: NT-SF1

PostPosted: Tue Mar 26, 2019 6:34 pm
by Wonks
I really liked that and it sounded very well recorded. A worthwhile investment. :clap: :thumbup:

Re: NT-SF1

PostPosted: Tue Mar 26, 2019 7:23 pm
by The Elf
:clap:

That sounds really well!

Well done, mate! :thumbup:

Re: NT-SF1

PostPosted: Tue Mar 26, 2019 7:46 pm
by Sam Spoons
Very nice indeed :thumbup:

Re: NT-SF1

PostPosted: Tue Mar 26, 2019 7:51 pm
by Wonks
Have you tried an ambisonic headphone mix yet?

Re: NT-SF1

PostPosted: Tue Mar 26, 2019 8:20 pm
by ConcertinaChap
Not yet. To do binaural, which is definitely something I want to experiment with, you need another plugin and at present time they all cost money, some lots of money. Hey ho. One day.

CC

Re: NT-SF1

PostPosted: Tue Mar 26, 2019 8:35 pm
by blinddrew
Gets the thumbs up from me. Feels like you're sat in the middle of the musicians. :)

Re: NT-SF1

PostPosted: Tue Mar 26, 2019 11:11 pm
by Sam Inglis
That's lovely! I like the piece, also. Is it based on a folk melody?

Re: NT-SF1

PostPosted: Tue Mar 26, 2019 11:51 pm
by ConcertinaChap
As I say, it was composed and arranged by my wife Anne. English traditional music is a strong influence on her music and it's likely that which you can hear. The title "Lantern of the West" is a reference to Bath Abbey and we had the pleasure of playing the tune in the Abbey during the Mayor Making ceremony last year.

CC

Re: NT-SF1

PostPosted: Wed Mar 27, 2019 9:25 am
by Dave B
(Have to go there ..... )

Needs more .... churchbell .... ;)

Re: NT-SF1

PostPosted: Wed Mar 27, 2019 10:49 am
by Wonks
:bouncy: :thumbup: :clap:

Re: NT-SF1

PostPosted: Wed Mar 27, 2019 11:20 am
by Hugh Robjohns
ConcertinaChap wrote:There's a quite a lot of spill in the virtual mics (though there would be a fair bit with real mics)...

Yes, there would be with real mics placed at the same central position too, as you say. Laws of physics and all that...

I've come to look at it, as a sort of "super-stereo" mic, with the advantages of a stereo mic plus to a useful degree some of the advantages of close miking.

It is exactly that -- a 'super-stereo' mic, and yes, it does have the benefit of being able to shape polar patterns and angles after the event, as well as generate multiple separate outputs... And by changing the virtual polar you can have some control of perspectives and discrimination against other sound sources... but that is nothing like the same as physical close-miking.

The relative distance of the mic cannot be changed in post-production so it's never going to give a true 'close-miked' effect and thus you will never gain the separation or reduction in spill that true close miking affords.

SoundField mics are wonderful things, and offer a level of versatility and flexibility well beyond that of a conventional stereo mic array, but they are still, essentially single-point stereo mics and they cannae change the laws of physics!

Fun recording, though. Nice.
H

Re: NT-SF1

PostPosted: Wed Mar 27, 2019 11:46 am
by jimjazzdad
Nice recording of the Waits - chapeau! Can you please say a bit about the venue itself? I am not hearing a lot of ambience, so I imagine a pretty dry acoustic...
Thanks.

Re: NT-SF1

PostPosted: Wed Mar 27, 2019 12:49 pm
by ConcertinaChap
jimjazzdad wrote:I am not hearing a lot of ambience, so I imagine a pretty dry acoustic...
Thanks.

My living room plus the obligatory quilt :)

I have added reverb but only a touch.

Dave B wrote:Needs more .... churchbell .... ;)

It's funny you should say that because Anne has done a lot of work incorporating church bells into instrumental music. I'm not going to give a long talk on Ellacombe Chimes here but listen to this: https://soundcloud.com/mr-punchs-studio ... himes-live

Anne has tried to get the Abbey authorities to let her perform this and other similar pieces at the Abbey. They were supportive but it didn't happen due to the intransigence of the bellringers' tower captain. :(

Hugh: I wouldn't disagree with a word you say. I've used various stereo mics in the past and know their limitations and the NT-SF1 while not fully overcoming them does go far enough to make it a really useful alternative for a number of situations. This was one of them. Anywhere you've got a group of musicians or singers and for whatever reason you don't want to go the close miking route then an ambisonic mic is an alternative worth considering. The end product, as this shows, can be quite effective.

CC