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Sound Devices MixPre-10T

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Sound Devices MixPre-10T

Postby Deleted User » Tue Dec 11, 2018 3:58 am

Anybody else having problems with the Sound Devices MixPre-10T?
Got ours about ten days ago and it has not been a universal success story.

Mechanical build excellent. Recorded sound quality excellent. Menu logical and effective. Ten channels of recording in a very neat and light package. Hirose external psu or plug-in battery sled on the back panel. Straight to SD card, with automatic backup to USB thumbdrive. Timecode management excellent.

Only one major problem. It only records to polyphonic wavs. If you record 192k/24 10track, it only lasts about twelve and a half mins till the 4GB filesize limit hits. At this moment everything goes wrong. The headphone monitoring drops out long enough to give you a heart attack, especially the first couple of times you hear it and there is a 'bong' noise each time as well to compound the shock - the same as you get when you start or stop recording. Then, the final blow: when you go to play the recording back it stops at the file-split moment and plays no further.

The MixPre-10T's new brother the 10M records to individual wavs which is a much better idea. So does the ZOOM F8 at half the price, and the Zoom menu lets you choose.

Real shame. A 3hr concert continuously recorded at 192k/24 gives you around fifteen monitoring dropouts and bongs, and you can only play it back 12mins or so at a time. When you get the recording home it does sound really stunning (and seamless) on your DAW which is the best consolation.
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Re: Sound Devices MixPre-10T

Postby Hugh Robjohns » Tue Dec 11, 2018 11:05 am

clintonjmolina wrote:Only one major problem. It only records to polyphonic wavs. If you record 192k/24 10track, it only lasts about twelve and a half mins till the 4GB filesize limit hits. At this moment everything goes wrong. The headphone monitoring drops out long enough to give you a heart attack, especially the first couple of times you hear it and there is a 'bong' noise each time as well to compound the shock - the same as you get when you start or stop recording. Then, the final blow: when you go to play the recording back it stops at the file-split moment and plays no further.

These are known issues and, although it didn't come up during my review tests it is a predictable and obvious 'limitation' of the 4GB file size limit. As it happens, I was party to some discussions between Tony Falkner and Paul Isaacs of Sound Devices about these very things back in April, and I was under the impression that Sound Devices had addressed the headphone bong and contiguous file playback issues already... but I'll check again and report back. EDIT: Checked. Fixed in V2.2 firmware update in May 2018

In Sound Device's defence, the 10T was intended for video applications shooting at 48k in shortish takes where this 4GB file size would never be exceeded, and where polywav is the preferred file exchange format.

However, I quite agree that the 4GB is a frustrating annoyance when making long recordings at high sample rates, and while the MixPre-10T is a superb machine it's odd that the 10M (or 10T running the musician plugin) can record separate wavs. I am at a complete loss as to why this option isn't available in all MixPre recorders all the time!

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Re: Sound Devices MixPre-10T

Postby Mike Stranks » Tue Dec 11, 2018 11:58 am

Slightly off-topic, but related to polywavs...

I hadn't come across them at all until I had a 'gotcha' with a new recorder that recorded polywavs and a (then) DAW that didn't accept them! To me it seems that they're virtually unknown to the music community.

OTOH a friend who's a pro location sound man always works in polywavs (at 48K) and was slightly surprised to learn that in the music community they're much rarer.

When you think about, the difference in approach is quite understandable.
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Re: Sound Devices MixPre-10T

Postby Hugh Robjohns » Tue Dec 11, 2018 12:20 pm

Yes, polywavs do seem a bit of a mystery in musical circles (although everyone is familiar with stereo polywavs, of course).

For short-ish takes at sensible sample rates they work very well and keep everything packaged together nicely and safely, and are therefore a very practical way of working and moving files around. And all the DAWs I use can break polywavs open into individual channels without any difficulties at all. It's a single button press in SADiE, for example. I just drag a polywav onto the timeline, the tracks all fall into their appropriate tracks, and if I want to access one individually I click a button and the invisible grouping disappears.

But obviously polywavs do become unwieldy in an overdubbing multitracker where you need to access individual tracks, and inevitably result in lots of files when working with silly sample rates and lots of tracks.

Regarding the OPs complaints...

I was pretty sure these things had been addressed and so I checked my email discussion with Paul Isaacs about these issues back in April when he told me they were to be fixed in the next firmware update... and sure enough, I've checked the Firmware updates archive for the 10T and v2.2 (released in May 2018) contained fixes to address these issues:

"Recordings that are split across multiple files now playback seamlessly"
AND
"Record Bells menu option to disable record bell notifications."

So while I don't have a machine to check here, I think this update specifically addressed the issues raised above. I suggest the OP checks that their machine is running the latest firmware and that the machine's configuration is correct regarding the headphone bongs!

Hope that helps

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Re: Sound Devices MixPre-10T

Postby John Willett » Tue Dec 11, 2018 12:21 pm

Paul Isaacs of Sound Devices says that v3.00 firmware will be coming soon - not sure what it does, though.
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Re: Sound Devices MixPre-10T

Postby John Willett » Tue Dec 11, 2018 12:28 pm

Just heard - it looks like v3.00 was released yesterday. :thumbup:

I understand it fixes the 192kHz ultrasonic noise issue.

Cue points are supported with the USB controllers in v3.00.
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Re: Sound Devices MixPre-10T

Postby Hugh Robjohns » Tue Dec 11, 2018 12:46 pm

Paul posted a link to the update himself here:

https://www.soundonsound.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=17&t=64112

There's a lot of exciting new stuff; changes introduced in 3.00 include:

New

For all models: USB control from the Korg NanoKontrol Studio, Korg NanoKontrol2, Akai MidiMix, and Novation Launch Control XL USB control surfaces. (With support for fader, trim, pan, low cut, reverb, solo, mute, track arm, monitor, transport control, LR output level, and user-programmable shortcut buttons.)

For MixPre-3, -6, and -10T only: Pre-record option (up to 10 seconds before the “record” button is pressed on the MixPre-10T and 5 seconds on the MixPre-3 & -6 (at base sample rates, less time at higher rates).

For MixPre-3 and 3M only: Polarity invert option added

For MixPre-6 and -10T only: Ambisonics and binaural recording/monitoring (-6 and -10T Audio projects only). Requires installation of the free Ambisonics Plugin

For all M models and Music projects on models with Musician Plugin: Bluetooth LE wireless remote control using the Android or iOS Wingman app. Includes 12-track monitoring, mix metering, transport control, time counter, track naming and arming.

Also, support for the new Windows ASIO driver, v2.9.92.1 which enables a MixPre running a Music project to be used as a multichannel USB audio interface with Windows computers.

Changed for all models: Meter scale now included on Channel screen meter and the maximum number of cue markers in Music projects has been increased to 99..

Fixed for all models: Noise that occurred when playing back MixPre-recorded 96 kHz or 192 kHz files at a fraction of their normal speed has been eliminated.

... and lots of other bug-fixes

Full details on the SD site linked above.

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Re: Sound Devices MixPre-10T

Postby Paul Isaacs » Tue Dec 11, 2018 6:23 pm

Hugh is on the money!

You can disable the record headphone beeps in the MixPre's Record menu. And auto-split files should playback seamlessly. Please check you are using the latest firmware. V3.00 came out yesterday.

Having said that, I do appreciate that seamless 4GB split files are a compromise for long form high sample rate recording as it an extra step joining them up in a DAW, although pretty easy. Monophonic files are one solution, although still not ideal since you would still be limited to 2 hours before splitting. I think RF64 (64-bit wav files) are the best way to go since they have a 16 exabyte max size - you could record for weeks/months without splitting! I believe most modern DAWs are compatible with RF64 now as well as ability to read and de-interleave polyphonic files.

So the question to you all .. is RF64 polyphonic format a good solution for you?

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Re: Sound Devices MixPre-10T

Postby Hugh Robjohns » Tue Dec 11, 2018 6:58 pm

YES! :D :thumbup:

... And maybe an option in the MixPre3/6/10T models to record separate wav files for the iso and stereo mix tracks?
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Re: Sound Devices MixPre-10T

Postby Hugh Robjohns » Tue Dec 11, 2018 9:42 pm

Hmmm... The thread starter's post has been niggling me all day -- why would a new 10T have firmware three issues out of date? And why was I reminded so strongly of my emails with Tony Faulkner nine months ago?

So I did a text search which revealed a direct cut and past job from an April post on Gearslutz... A post from Tony himself! Doh!

So I'm afraid we've been duped by a moronic scammer attempting to set up a seed account. Needless to say, he's now outta here! :roll: Normal service has been resumed.

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Re: Sound Devices MixPre-10T

Postby zenguitar » Wed Dec 12, 2018 1:27 am

The OP has been removed.

So as there has been a useful conversation generated there's no need to pull the plug on the helpful chat. So I've unlocked the topic again :)

Andy :beamup:
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Re: Sound Devices MixPre-10T

Postby Johnsy » Wed Dec 12, 2018 6:29 pm

Nice work, Hugh.
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