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Klark Teknik 76-KT

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Klark Teknik 76-KT

Postby The Elf » Wed Dec 12, 2018 10:49 am

Anybody else managed to score one of these yet?

177 quid (with an internal PSU - for those who always tell me external PSUs are necessary for low prices...), fairly lightweight build quality, but sounds convincing.

If it had stereo linking I would buy another. Impressive.
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Re: Klark Teknik 76-KT

Postby The Elf » Wed Dec 12, 2018 6:45 pm

:shock:
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Re: Klark Teknik 76-KT

Postby Wonks » Wed Dec 12, 2018 7:31 pm

You're so demanding!
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Re: Klark Teknik 76-KT

Postby Mike Stranks » Wed Dec 12, 2018 8:56 pm

That's my sort of money, but these days I'm always ITB...
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Re: Klark Teknik 76-KT

Postby Wonks » Wed Dec 12, 2018 9:00 pm

I'm always tempted by hardware like that, but in reality I'd never end up using it.
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Re: Klark Teknik 76-KT

Postby blinddrew » Wed Dec 12, 2018 9:11 pm

Looks very interesting but I'd need to be able to understand what it did that software couldn't. I'm not convinced my ears would be able to tell the difference...
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Re: Klark Teknik 76-KT

Postby The Elf » Wed Dec 12, 2018 9:22 pm

:lol:

Yes, I'm ITB mainly, but having the ability to drive some external hardware (and the 76-KT reacts rather nicely to a bit of a push) is still desirable to me, especially as I still use stomp-boxes, toy amps, titchy speakers, radios, kids' toys and the like.

Well, if anyone else turns one up I'd be interested to hear other opinions.
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Re: Klark Teknik 76-KT

Postby blinddrew » Wed Dec 12, 2018 10:02 pm

Don't get me wrong, I'd still love one to play with, but I know I'd be kidding myself everytime I plugged it in... ;)
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Re: Klark Teknik 76-KT

Postby Hugh Robjohns » Wed Dec 12, 2018 11:44 pm

The Elf wrote:If it had stereo linking I would buy another.

Not so easy to do.

While the design of the 1176 (and most of its clones) makes it fairly easy to share a common side-chain control voltage, that won't necessarily provide identical amounts of gain reduction on each channel because the critical part of the transfer curve in the FETs that do the gain-reducing attenuation are not naturally closely matched ex-factory. So the stereo image isn't likely to be any more stable when linked than if unlinked!

Accurate stereo linking would require Behringer to specifically match FETs, and so you'd have to buy dedicated stereo-matched pairs of KT76s rather than individual units bought at random.

There are other ways of achieving matched amounts of gain reduction across two 1176 units, but they all involve extra and non-standard circuitry which goes against the close cloning intentions of the product line...
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Re: Klark Teknik 76-KT

Postby Mixedup » Thu Dec 13, 2018 1:02 pm

Hugh Robjohns wrote:While the design of the 1176 (and most of its clones) makes it fairly easy to share a common side-chain control voltage, that won't necessarily provide identical amounts of gain reduction on each channel because the critical part of the transfer curve in the FETs that do the gain-reducing attenuation are not naturally closely matched ex-factory.

Interesting... is it that the curve is different in shape, or that they'll require different levels to hit the same part of the curve? (Or both?)
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Re: Klark Teknik 76-KT

Postby Hugh Robjohns » Thu Dec 13, 2018 1:37 pm

In effect, the natural production variation means the FET's have slightly different sensitivity to the control voltage, and thus the amount of attenuation varies... and while that's not a problem in a mono device because you just tweak the settings until you get the effect you want, it doesn't take much variation in channel-channel attenuation to completely mess up the stereo image!
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Re: Klark Teknik 76-KT

Postby dickiefunk » Thu Dec 13, 2018 2:11 pm

I haven't tried the 76-KT yet but have the KT-2a arriving today :)
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Re: Klark Teknik 76-KT

Postby Dan LB » Fri Dec 14, 2018 12:57 am

Hugh Robjohns wrote:In effect, the natural production variation means the FET's have slightly different sensitivity to the control voltage, and thus the amount of attenuation varies... and while that's not a problem in a mono device because you just tweak the settings until you get the effect you want, it doesn't take much variation in channel-channel attenuation to completely mess up the stereo image!


Out of interest, how does the Black Lion Audio Seventeen (reviewed in this months mag) work with regard to this? It has a 'link' socket on the back for passing control voltage to / from a second unit. Is it likely that these units would suffer from the same issues if used on a stereo source?

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Re: Klark Teknik 76-KT

Postby The Elf » Fri Dec 14, 2018 9:41 am

In the past I've avoided these issues by using pairs of mono devices in mid/side. I've become pretty much addicted to this technique since it offers significant advantages without much in the way of disadvantages,
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Re: Klark Teknik 76-KT

Postby Hugh Robjohns » Fri Dec 14, 2018 10:30 am

Dan LB wrote:Out of interest, how does the Black Lion Audio Seventeen (reviewed in this months mag) work with regard to this? It has a 'link' socket on the back for passing control voltage to / from a second unit. Is it likely that these units would suffer from the same issues if used on a stereo source?

I'm afraid I don't know how the BL design works. A I said, there are other ways of effecting a stereo link that avoids the transfer curve matching problem.

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Re: Klark Teknik 76-KT

Postby Guest » Fri Dec 14, 2018 10:40 am

The Elf wrote:.... using pairs of mono devices in mid/side. I've become pretty much addicted to this technique since it offers significant advantages ....

Could you explain how you set that up please as I would like to try it?
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Re: Klark Teknik 76-KT

Postby Hugh Robjohns » Fri Dec 14, 2018 10:57 am

Convert your Left-Right stereo signal to the Mid-Sides format (there are countless plugins available to do that).

Send the Mid channel to one compressor (or EQ etc), and the Sides to a second unit.

Return the processed signals and convert back to Left-Right stereo.

Now, with normal L-R stereo, if the levels through the two processors are different (because of applied gain reduction in the case of compressors, or because you've EQd the channels differently), you end up with an image shift to one side or the other (and in the case of EQ that image shift will apply to a specific frequency range).

However, if processing MS, what you get is a change in image width, to the image narrows or widens. Not only is this less noticeable, but it can be really handy to help control strong central sound sources, or bring out sounds panned to the outer edges of the image!

It's the difference in level between M and S that determines the stereo width, and with no S at all you're left with a central (mono) sound.

So, if the M channel is reduced in level relative to the S, the image gets wider, and if the S level is reduced relative to M the image gets narrower.

The classic 'elliptical filter' used in vinyl mastering is an MS EQ, where the bass is rolled off on the Side channel so that all the bass ends up in the centre of the stereo image and becomes a lateral grove that the stylus can track. (If there was lots of bass in the Sides channel the groove would alternate between shallow and deep, and risk kicking the stylus out altogether!

It's a widely used technique, especially in mastering circles.

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Re: Klark Teknik 76-KT

Postby Guest » Sat Dec 15, 2018 10:27 am

Many thanks for your reply Hugh, I really appreciate it. The recordings I do are invariably played as a prerecorded part of concert chamber works in recitals or art galleries. This obviously means the recording has to be basically mono, although I may use stereo reverb, delays, or very occasionally, detune the sides. Hence my recent question about converting stereo to mono, by the time the rehearsal comes it is usually too late to redo the tape. I suppose I am more concerned about stereo mistakes than is necessary but I don't want two separate works dependent on where you sit in the performance space.

The usual way I work is to complete the work myself for the first rehearsals, and possibly first performance. Then once I know everything is right, and the performer is satisfied with the work, I then take it to a specialist engineer (with decades of experience and exceptional analogue outboard processors) to do a final check and to master it.
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Re: Klark Teknik 76-KT

Postby soniccircuitry » Thu May 16, 2019 9:38 pm

If anyone is interested, I made a YouTube demo for the 76-KT:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4xXDKFGxoPg
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