SOUND ON SOUND

[Watchmaker]

SOS has the best forum on the web...heck, they even let me hang around!

G'luck with the 102, you can't really go wrong with it.

[Jack Ruston]

Re the SM7...there are a couple of advantages - it's less toppy, which makes it less sibilant. When you then add a load of top end to the mix, it sits very well. And here's a HUGE thing - people can hold it in their hand if needs be. It's not the easiest mic to hold, but you can do it. And that can make the difference between a performance being unusably poor, and awesome. This is especially true with artists who always hold their mic when performing, and so physically move a lot more than they'd be able to do in front of a stand.

Re the Neumann. See how much you can pick up a used 87 for. It won't be 850 or whatever insane amount they're trying to get for a 103, but it might be close to 1k. That might be a more solid investment. You could always get that back. It's also the Neumann that has reputation value in that price range.

J

[CS70]

Best of luck!

Also don’t get too hung up in the technical side. I never saw a mic making great music on its own :)

[Martin Walker]

thanks for all the replies :clap: :clap: , its my first time posting on SOS. Usually I refer my questions to other forums full of people who just hate on every-bodies decisions. Good to see a community of sound heads actually having a nice conversation. :lol: . I think I'll come here from now on.. no more waiting around either as it would appear.

Hi shxdohmusic, and welcome to the SOS Forums! 8-)

I'm so pleased that you noticed our friendliness and decided to stay. It is indeed a great place to join in as well as find out other people's opinions, and the range of expertise ranges from absolute beginners to long-time industry professionals with decades of knowledge and experience.

Hope you enjoy your stay as much as the rest of us seem to! ;)


Martin

[James Perrett]

but it might be close to 1k.
J

I was a bit surprised to see this as I paid £800 for mine over 20 years ago and thought I was getting a reasonable deal. I'd assumed that used ones went for double that now but I notice a few going for around £1200-1300 on Ebay so they're not totally out of the question.

[John Willett]

If you are considering the TLM 102 and 103 you should really also have the Gefell M930 on the list.

Gefell is the original Neumann, made in the same factory that Neumann set up during WWII and is still owned by Neumann's orighinal company set up in 1928.

Neumann Berlin is Neumann's post-war company, now owned by Sennheiser, and the mics are now made in the Sennheiser complex in Hannover.

I'm not goiing to comment on the various merits of each as that is a personal choice - just saying as the M 930 is in the same ball-park price range and of at least equal build quality.

[Humble Bee]

You beat me to it John.
Gefell +1 :thumbup:

[CS70]

thanks for all the replies :clap: :clap: , its my first time posting on SOS. Usually I refer my questions to other forums full of people who just hate on every-bodies decisions. Good to see a community of sound heads actually having a nice conversation.

This forum is an island of sanity in the madness of the Internet :)

[Mike Stranks]

If you are considering the TLM 102 and 103 you should really also have the Gefell M930 on the list.

Gefell is the original Neumann, made in the same factory that Neumann set up during WWII and is still owned by Neumann's orighinal company set up in 1928.

Neumann Berlin is Neumann's post-war company, now owned by Sennheiser, and the mics are now made in the Sennheiser complex in Hannover.

I'm not goiing to comment on the various merits of each as that is a personal choice - just saying as the M 930 is in the same ball-park price range and of at least equal build quality.

Oo-er!

Just clinked on John's 'SoundLink' link and got this message:

"Your connection is not secure

The owner of sound-link.co.uk has configured their web site improperly. To protect your information from being stolen, Firefox has not connected to this web site.

Learn more…

Report errors like this to help Mozilla identify and block malicious sites"


Over to you Mr W....

[Kwackman]

Just clinked on John's SoundLink' link and got this message:

[i]"Your connection is not secure
The owner of sound-link.co.uk has configured their web site improperly. To protect your information from being stolen

Yes, Safari gives a similar warning too.

[Mike Stranks]

Same message if I try and go in thru a Google search...

But it's confirmed that SoundLink sell Gefell mics...

[blinddrew]

Sounds like an expired security certificate or similar.

[John Willett]

Just clinked on John's 'SoundLink' link and got this message:

"Your connection is not secure

The owner of sound-link.co.uk has configured their web site improperly. To protect your information from being stolen, Firefox has not connected to this web site.

Learn more…

Report errors like this to help Mozilla identify and block malicious sites"


Over to you Mr W....

The site is fully secure and fully safe - it's just that the certificate ran out a day or two ago and my webman has not renewed it yet.

I'll give him a kick.

[shxdohmusic]

I think I'll go with the TLM102 :clap: .. I'll give Neumann the chance to win me over with their entry level mic that specifically designed to do so and hope they succeed :o . that way I can start stacking my pennies up for a u67 or u87 if I like it.

I've never tried a neumann in my life, only ever requested SE microphones for vocals because thats what I came up on. now that I have SE's dual valve beast though I'm looking for new manufactures to collect from and experiment with. In contrast to my SE2200 and my SE GEMINI, I'll be able to tell if the 102 is a good vocal mic or not straight away :lol: If not i suppose I'll return for a 103 and try start there...

Now I just need to decide what colour I should get between silver and black :( why don't they ever make anything simple? :lol:

[zenguitar]

The colour choice is simple...

Silver for studio, black for broadcast.

Andy :beamup:

[Watchmaker]

Black is for "bitchin" here in the States. Silver is for "Soul Food" I have a silver, but the black is just cool man

[Mike Stranks]

The colour choice is simple...

Silver for studio, black for broadcast.

Andy :beamup:

Yup! :thumbup:

Although I take it a stage further.... the vast majority of my work these days is location work with an audience present. I do get more than occasional comments about 'obtrusive equipment' and light reflecting from shiny surfaces. It's got to the point where I won't usually consider a mic that isn't black.

But hopefully the OP doesn't have to consider keeping fractious audiences happy! :)

[Sam Spoons]

You must have the patience of a saint Mike :headbang:

[Mixedup]

The colour choice is simple...

Silver for studio, black for broadcast.

...but always gold for gangsta rap, of course. :headbang:

[Hugh Robjohns]

The colour choice is simple...

Silver for studio, black for broadcast.

Andy :beamup:

This reminds me of a scarily true story!

A great many moons ago I was asked to provide a long week of TV Sound training to a course run by the Arab States Broadcast Union in Damascus, Syria, in my role as 'the man from the BBC'. There are many entertaining and frightening things I could tell about that particular trip, but the relevant one here is that towards the end of the week, after many lectures via an interpreter covering all the theory about mics and mic usage, I was to run two practical studio music recording exercises to pull everything together, one on the Thursday afternoon, and another on the Friday morning.

I was expecting things to work as would be normal for a BBC training session, with the course delegates selecting and rigging mics, stands, cables, etc before taking it in turns with the live music mixing, building on their theoretical knowledge, and with me guiding, advising, and supervising as necessary.

The console was a nice (and barely used) Neve, so no worries there, (although the speakers were the wrong way around so the pan-pots worked backwards!), and the studio's mic cupboard contained everything -- and I do mean everything -- that AKG made (but nothing else at all!) so we had a decent range of mic options.

So, the local band comes in and sets up. We collectively have a listen and then a chat about how best to cover everything -- but instead of the delegates then getting stuck in, they all stood back. I was perplexed and asked my interpreter why they weren't rigging the mics as I'd asked? He told me that these were 'sound balancers' and they never ventured to the studio floor or handled microphones -- they had underlings for all that as it was beneath them!

Slightly taken aback, but wary of the time constraints, I had no choice but to rig everything single-handed, but I took care to explain what I was doing and why as they watched. We then all go into the control room and they take it in turns to mix. Everyone seems to be happy when they leave at lunchtime.

The following morning, different band but same basic situation... so, forewarned this time, after listening to the first rehearsal I set to rigging everything and we all trundle into the control room. Everything goes well, and at the end of the session I sum up the whole week's training, thank them for their attention, and ask if there are any final questions?

One of the delegates pipes up, in English, and says: "Mister Rabjaani, yesterday you used black microphones for the vocals and silver on the instruments, but today you used only silver microphones on the vocals and black on the instruments. Please explain?!"

Astonished and perplexed, I dived into a lengthy explanation about polar patterns and dynamics versus capacitor mics and why I'd chosen those specific mics for their particular properties for each individual situation -- basically recapping the entire week's worth of training.

To which he replied, "Yes, I understand Mister Rabjaani... but why the silver mics today?"

Utterly frustrated at wasting a week of my time in a somewhat inhospitable and isolated location, I felt I was left with no option: so with the straightest face I could muster I replied, "You're quite right: you should always use silver mics for vocals, and black ones for everything else; it's just that I wasn't very familiar with your microphone collection yesterday, so we made do!"

And as I looked around the room, every single one of the delegates was writing notes in their handbooks: "Silver mics for vocals"...

Completely true story! I really couldn't want to get placed on the plane home that evening by the Secret Police and given my passport back! And it was such a relief to be offered a G&T by a nice man in grey flannels on the British Airways 737!

H