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Daisy Chaining Power to Outboard Gear

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Daisy Chaining Power to Outboard Gear

Postby jimh76 » Thu Jan 24, 2019 1:07 pm

Hi.

Is it possible to do this using the 4 way extension leads that you can get for guitar pedals? I know that you'd need to make sure that the voltage matched and the polarity was correct, but could they be run off 1 plug.

I basically have the below equipment that runs off wall-warts:
Fmr RNC
2 x Art Tube MP
Presonus Tube Pre v1

All with nasty wall-warts. Is there a limit to how many you can daisy chain? I'm a bit foggy on the ampage side but seem to remember that too much is better than not enough, or is it the other way round?

Any help greatly appreciated.

Jim
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Re: Daisy Chaining Power to Outboard Gear

Postby Mike Stranks » Thu Jan 24, 2019 1:15 pm

Too much is better than not enough!

So provided that all the units require the same voltage and that all have the same polarity you should be OK.

To determine the current rating required of your 'master' wallwart you need to sum the power requirements of each unit. This if they require (say) 600mA, 900mA, 1000mA (1 amp) and 500mA then you need a power-supply rated at a minimum of 3 amps (3000mA). Anything greater than that will be fine - in fact I always buy above the minimum required. In this example I'd be looking at 4 - 5 amps.

I can't comment on the pedal wiring arrangements that you mention...
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Re: Daisy Chaining Power to Outboard Gear

Postby Wonks » Thu Jan 24, 2019 1:33 pm

With digital units, I'd be very wary of daisy chaining the power supply as you are very likely to get ground loops, and powering them from separate wall warts or a multi-output PSU with isolated power supplies would be advisable. But with four analogue units you are less likely to have such issues, though it could happen.

I'd make some test recordings of the units as they are now, then again after trying the daisy-chain method. You should then be able to tell if noise levels have increased. Whilst daisy-chaining the power supplies may provide a neater arrangement, you don't want it to be at the cost of the sonic integrity.
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Re: Daisy Chaining Power to Outboard Gear

Postby Hugh Robjohns » Thu Jan 24, 2019 1:45 pm

jimh76 wrote:Is it possible to do this using the 4 way extension leads that you can get for guitar pedals? I know that you'd need to make sure that the voltage matched and the polarity was correct, but could they be run off 1 plug.

Yes, theoretically it could be done -- provided they all share the same voltage and wiring polarity and the single supply is beefy enough. But as the others have said, the danger is creating ground-loops via the power supplies which could result in all manner of nasty unwanted noises.

Using a multi-output power module with isolated outputs would be a better idea, and several of those exist... but they aren't cheap!

https://www.strymon.net/products/zuma/

https://www.soundonsound.com/reviews/nemphasis-oktopus-plus
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Re: Daisy Chaining Power to Outboard Gear

Postby jimh76 » Thu Jan 24, 2019 2:44 pm

Hi,

Thanks for all this. I didn't realise that I'd have to add up all the Miliamps etc. I was hoping to run them all from the plug with the highest ampage, but this would still be too small.

I have started looking at the multi powerbanks like you mentioned Hugh and MTR do one on Studiospares which is only £49 which isn't too bad.

Or there's this one which is for guitar pedals
https://www.gear4music.com/Guitar-and-B ... dapter/B76.

That could work....?

Jim.
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Re: Daisy Chaining Power to Outboard Gear

Postby Hugh Robjohns » Thu Jan 24, 2019 3:52 pm

Just be aware that relatively few units (especially the lower cost ones) have genuinely isolated DC outputs. Most share common DC grounds, and hence open the possibility of ground loops. For true isolation you either need separate mains transformers for each output, or a custom mains transformer with multiple secondaries. Both options rack the price up!

H
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Re: Daisy Chaining Power to Outboard Gear

Postby Sam Spoons » Thu Jan 24, 2019 3:57 pm

The PSU that comes with that can supply 1A at 15V so at a rough guess if your 4 devices current consumption adds up to no more than. say, 1500mA at 9V you should be ok. Check the current rating, voltage and polarity of all to be sure. It's outputs are not isolated so you may still run into earth loop issues though. If you buy mail order you can, at least, send it back if that proves the case.
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Re: Daisy Chaining Power to Outboard Gear

Postby James Perrett » Thu Jan 24, 2019 4:22 pm

One thing that everyone seems to have missed is that we are dealing with 9V AC supplies in the case of the ART Tube MP, either 9V AC or 12V DC supplies in the case of the RNC (depending on age) and 16V AC for the Presonus unit. I very much doubt that anyone will make a single unit that can handle such a wide range of requirements.
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Re: Daisy Chaining Power to Outboard Gear

Postby Hugh Robjohns » Thu Jan 24, 2019 4:26 pm

Oh! Good spot! I hadn't clocked that the wall-warts in question were (probably) AC types.

If that's genuinely the case, then I can't think of a multi-outlet supply that would do the job. I fear the OP is stuck with his multiple wall-warts.

If sticking with the wall-warts, it may help reliability to use tie-wraps to secure them to a mains plug-board, but if you do make sure you can access the wall-socket feeding the plug-board, or use a switched type of plug-board just so that you can kill the power in a hurry should you need to (since you can't unplug the wall-wart quickly once it's tie-wrapped!).

H
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Re: Daisy Chaining Power to Outboard Gear

Postby Mike Stranks » Thu Jan 24, 2019 4:42 pm

Indeed! Good spot by James. :thumbup:

"This bird ain't gonna fly..." :thumbdown:

'Tis the Robjohns' solution then...
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Re: Daisy Chaining Power to Outboard Gear

Postby Sam Spoons » Thu Jan 24, 2019 5:08 pm

Sam Spoons wrote:The PSU that comes with that can supply 1A at 15V so at a rough guess if your 4 devices current consumption adds up to no more than. say, 1500mA at 9V you should be ok. Check the current rating, voltage and polarity of all to be sure. It's outputs are not isolated so you may still run into earth loop issues though. If you buy mail order you can, at least, send it back if that proves the case.

Ahem........ :blush:
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Re: Daisy Chaining Power to Outboard Gear

Postby jimh76 » Thu Jan 24, 2019 5:49 pm

Cheers for everyone's help.

The reason I was looking into in in the first place is that I have just acquired the RNC and don't have a spare plug. I'll probably just remove the lamp I've got and plug that in somewhere else.

I seems like a pigging nightmare, or V expensive, so glad I didn't make any investments.

On a funny side note I was plugging and unplugging things the other night as my right speaker was buzzing. I unplugged mics, leads, preamps, reverbs, even my samson monitor matrix then had to pause as my 2 year old was crying on the video monitor. I picked up the video monitor [WHICH WAS NEXT TO MY RIGHT SPEAKER] to go up stairs and comfort him, and.......... the buzzing stopped........DOH!

Jim.
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Re: Daisy Chaining Power to Outboard Gear

Postby DGL. » Thu Jan 24, 2019 6:21 pm

It might be possible, but would require paralleling of some of the outputs to get the required amperage and the AC side might not be beefy enough.
https://www.thomann.de/gb/cioks_ac10.htm
Make sure you are sitting down when you see the price though.
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Re: Daisy Chaining Power to Outboard Gear

Postby James Perrett » Thu Jan 24, 2019 10:34 pm

jimh76 wrote:The reason I was looking into in in the first place is that I have just acquired the RNC and don't have a spare plug. I'll probably just remove the lamp I've got and plug that in somewhere else.

Get yourself an 8 way distribution socket rather than a 4 way - they're much cheaper than a specialist power supply.
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