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Internet connection or no internet connection?

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Re: Internet connection or no internet connection?

Postby CS70 » Thu Feb 14, 2019 10:44 am

Sam Spoons wrote:I think, on balance there are enough reasons for not connecting the studio computer to the network/internet to justify keeping it isolated. Mostly the reduction in distractions and potential for interruptions. Of the pros, backing up, updating and transferring files only the last has any significance and I'll continue to do that via USB drive for now. I can have 3 drives in the Mac Pro in addition to the working SSD, I will sort out a proper backup regime one day, it's a little 'ad-hoc' at present (but nowhere near as 'ad-hoc' as my recording procedures) but a couple of extra 1TB HDDs will keep my backup needs well cared for.

Thanks chaps :thumbup:

If you are used to a “disconnected” workflow it’s alright, but if you move to a “connected” one there’s no way back. I too disable the radios for serious recording, tough I must say I don’t for the demos I make for the band and I never experienced any problem.. other than the phone ringing during a vocal or acoustic guitar take:) Phone’s way more easy to forget to turn off, and more dangerous!
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Re: Internet connection or no internet connection?

Postby Sam Spoons » Thu Feb 14, 2019 10:47 am

CS70 wrote:If you are used to a “disconnected” workflow it’s alright, but if you move to a “connected” one there’s no way back......

That may be a good reason not to connect on it's own :D I find myself far too easily distracted at the best of times. Having SoS mag/forum just a click away would be the final spike........
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Re: Internet connection or no internet connection?

Postby CS70 » Thu Feb 14, 2019 10:54 am

Indeed! If online Tetris didn’t exist I’d gave at least five more songs readily produced! :-D
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Re: Internet connection or no internet connection?

Postby OneWorld » Thu Feb 14, 2019 11:05 am

James Perrett wrote:
Mike Stranks wrote:Sigh! I've only got one computer... sigh! :cry:

I'll bet you've not kept the same one for 15 years though! My oldest one is nearly 15 years old while my newest one is around 7 years old and bought secondhand.

Well done, and respect to Mike Stranks, surviving on one computer!

My music PC is about 7 years old too, was quite high spec back in the day but apart from the odd bits of Win10 updates meddling that upsets things, it is generally reliable and I have run umpteen plugins and it doesn't even break into a sweat. That being said, some updates have fixed problems (NIC driver) and made the PC run faster
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Re: Internet connection or no internet connection?

Postby ef37a » Thu Feb 14, 2019 11:22 am

CS70 wrote:
ef37a wrote:"If you turn the internet connection off, processes will look for the network and
interfere with music production."

So how do you prevent that DC? Would "airplane mode" do it?

Dave.

Nothing to worry. If there’s no network interface, processes will look as they are coded to do, but the system knows it’s moot so will return control immediately - the amount of time used is negligible, and orders of magnitude smalller than if there is an active network interface.

So, do you mean disabling the network interface in Device Manager or just unplugging an Ethernet cable or on a laptop switching off the wi fi with the "aerial" button? Or/and turning off the router in the "staircase" bottom right?

In short, how deep do you have to go such that Windows no longer "cares"?

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Re: Internet connection or no internet connection?

Postby Mike Stranks » Thu Feb 14, 2019 11:45 am

OneWorld wrote:
James Perrett wrote:
Mike Stranks wrote:Sigh! I've only got one computer... sigh! :cry:

I'll bet you've not kept the same one for 15 years though! My oldest one is nearly 15 years old while my newest one is around 7 years old and bought secondhand.

Well done, and respect to Mike Stranks, surviving on one computer!

My music PC is about 7 years old too, was quite high spec back in the day but apart from the odd bits of Win10 updates meddling that upsets things, it is generally reliable and I have run umpteen plugins and it doesn't even break into a sweat. That being said, some updates have fixed problems (NIC driver) and made the PC run faster

It was some slight forum hyperbole as I also have a Win 7 laptop which I only use away from home.

My desktop is now 6+ years old and was purchased 3 years ago from a fellow forumite. I try and keep it in good fettle with all the usual 'prune and clean' software. Permanently connected to t'Internet and very reliable... the odd glitch usually sorted by a reboot.

Of course anything I'm working on that has a lot of input - music, spreadsheets, docs - gets saved at regular intervals.

I had my last desktop for 8/9 years and it survived migrations from XP to 7 to 10 intact!
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Re: Internet connection or no internet connection?

Postby Sam Spoons » Thu Feb 14, 2019 12:55 pm

When I were a lad.........

I remember the tribulations of trying to get a Windows PC running Cubase (complete with parallel port dongle) with any sort of reliability back in the day with DOS 6 and Win 3.11.....

My last Windows studio PC was running Win XP Lite which was pretty good but I decided I was still spending too much time playing computers and not enough playing music and went back to hardware for a few years.
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Re: Internet connection or no internet connection?

Postby CS70 » Thu Feb 14, 2019 1:27 pm

ef37a wrote:So, do you mean disabling the network interface in Device Manager or just unplugging an Ethernet cable or on a laptop switching off the wi fi with the "aerial" button? Or/and turning off the router in the "staircase" bottom right?

In short, how deep do you have to go such that Windows no longer "cares"?

Dave.

In short, airplane mode is just fine if you only operate a wireless interfaces, the 100% safe way is to disable the device, but also just unplugging the cable will work just fine in practically all cases.

To understand why - from the connection checking point of view, if you want to the absolute fastest you need to disable the network interface, as in that way the kernel will simply not enumerate it - it basically won't exist from the kernel point of view.

However, checking airplane mode is also handled at kernel level, so while technically it's a few more calls (instead of returning immediately, the kernel will enumerate the devices, and finding that the one device is wireless, check airplane mode and return right away), each of them takes next to nothing and in practice it won't make any difference. In the end it's checking a true/false value and that's what computers do best :)

If you have a wired connection, airplane mode doesn't help (it's only for the radios). In that case, if you simply unplug the Ethernet cable, control will pass from the client process to kernel to the interface driver. The driver will simply check if there's any active connection and return immediately if not, but of course one cannot be certain that an hyper-sloppy programmer has put some useless time-wasting code in the driver... but it's very, very unlikely. So really no big deal - just a little more overhead but not so much. The only caveat there is that power management needs to be disabled - that's because the way it's implemented by the driver can be pretty intrusive

However, what takes steals processing power from real-time tasks is not the network checking itself - whatever way.. rather, it's the reconstruction and processing of any network-related information, either synchronously by your application or asynchronously by others.. say your mail client waking up deciding to check for mails, or a TCP server running in the background that suddenly starts receiving data, and has to spawn a handler thread which then start consuming the data, interpreting it and doing something in reaction...
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Re: Internet connection or no internet connection?

Postby DC-Choppah » Thu Feb 14, 2019 10:31 pm

ef37a wrote:"If you turn the internet connection off, processes will look for the network and
interfere with music production."

So how do you prevent that DC? Would "airplane mode" do it?

Dave.

On Windows machines that I use, I just disable the network device if I want to be off the network and that causes Windows to 'know' not to spend time going to look for things out on the network like networked printers, gadgets, etc. I guess that is the same as "airplane mode" on a mac?

But the better solution is to leave the network device enabled and follow this: http://avid.force.com/pkb/articles/trou ... s-10-Guide

..which basically says to make sure you use a network interface that does not interfere with audio. Some unfortunately do. Selecting a known good network card is key and good drivers matter. Then once you have a good driver, you tell Windows to not update any of your drivers when it does updates.

That is the most important part of making the system stable while connected to the internet - don't let your drivers change from the good ones. There is a control panel setting for this.
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Re: Internet connection or no internet connection?

Postby narcoszzz » Fri Feb 15, 2019 12:44 am

Sam Spoons, there's no perfect firewall or protection, if you can don't connect your PCs to the internet. Connect if you need to activate something, or possible update, and then disconnect again. There's no need to test how safe(protected) your system is.
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Re: Internet connection or no internet connection?

Postby Sam Spoons » Fri Feb 15, 2019 12:55 am

That's my conclusion, I'm in the happy position that I don't have to use my Studio computer for anything else soother are only minor inconveniences to keeping it away from the internet and several advantages. :D
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Re: Internet connection or no internet connection?

Postby awjoe » Fri Feb 15, 2019 7:06 am

Sam Spoons wrote:
CS70 wrote:Having SoS mag/forum just a click away would be the final spike........

Do an album called The Last Spike:

Image
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Re: Internet connection or no internet connection?

Postby Sam Spoons » Fri Feb 15, 2019 9:56 am

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Re: Internet connection or no internet connection?

Postby Dr Huge Longjohns » Fri Feb 15, 2019 12:19 pm

Well done, and respect to Mike Stranks, surviving on one computer!

Jeez, is this unusual? I've only ever had one computer at a time. I now have multiple computer envy syndrome.
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Re: Internet connection or no internet connection?

Postby ef37a » Fri Feb 15, 2019 1:09 pm

Dr Huge Longjohns wrote:
Well done, and respect to Mike Stranks, surviving on one computer!

Jeez, is this unusual? I've only ever had one computer at a time. I now have multiple computer envy syndrome.

Over the years I have never had fewer than two computers and presently own five although 3 of them are home builds of varying quality and none of blistering performance. The top machine perhaps being an Asus MOBO with an AMD 3K 6core Black CPU and 6G of ram.

If I had not had at least two computers there were time when I would have ended up with none! I have had my share of trouble and could only fix a PC because I had a spare to use on the net to get help.

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Re: Internet connection or no internet connection?

Postby OneWorld » Fri Feb 15, 2019 2:05 pm

Dr Huge Longjohns wrote:
Well done, and respect to Mike Stranks, surviving on one computer!

Jeez, is this unusual? I've only ever had one computer at a time. I now have multiple computer envy syndrome.

LOL - now I have envy of those who are envious about something syndrome
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Re: Internet connection or no internet connection?

Postby scw » Fri Feb 15, 2019 2:07 pm

ef37a wrote:Over the years I have never had fewer than two computers and presently own five

Dave.
Come on Dave, we all know it's not how many computers that you've got that's important, it's what you do with it that counts! :blush:

You're clearly suffering from multiple computatosis!! I don't think there's a cure for that.

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Re: Internet connection or no internet connection?

Postby ef37a » Fri Feb 15, 2019 7:05 pm

scw wrote:
ef37a wrote:Over the years I have never had fewer than two computers and presently own five

Dave.
Come on Dave, we all know it's not how many computers that you've got that's important, it's what you do with it that counts! :blush:

You're clearly suffering from multiple computatosis!! I don't think there's a cure for that.

Stewart

Well! It all makes perfect sense to me! I have an i3 laptop upon which I type this. To my left is an old DT that I revamped with an SSD and sits under a unit that carries a scanner/printer. This PC is connected to my living room 42" JVC TV and can play music out to a pair of modest powered speakers via an ESI 1010e interface*.
Then there is a £120 second hand laptop that I bought for wife when she had a bee in her bonnet about learning to use a PC. Never has.

Behind me in a bedroom is a DT rigged for music. That is the AMD 6 core. And lastly I have another DT which WAS setup with W10 (all others are W7) and now lives in my loft. I t was fine until I got my son a W10 laptop and after setting that up the DT would no longer recognize my password. Have to get back to that and try to fix it but B cold up there atmo!

*Yes! Total overkill and waste but the reasons are historical.

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Re: Internet connection or no internet connection?

Postby The Elf » Fri Feb 15, 2019 9:33 pm

I only have one computer per studio!

And one for the office... :tongue:
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Re: Internet connection or no internet connection?

Postby Folderol » Fri Feb 15, 2019 10:15 pm

My 'Office' computer is on-line whenever it's switched on. My music one, and my laptop are only physically connected when I want to upgrade the OS/applications.

I maintain a group of backup SSDs that I also use to transfer between machines, to ensure common files are consistent.
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