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56 Channel Digital Studio Build Requirements

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56 Channel Digital Studio Build Requirements

Postby trunkdog » Sat Feb 23, 2019 6:52 pm

DIGITAL STUDIO

I'm soliciting assistance in equipping my studio with a 56 (min) track digital setup without necessitating a second mortgage. Seriously, under $5K (read on before you let that price tag cause issues, please) Used or B-Stock acceptable.

I have ruled out the PreSonus Series III 32.
Alternately I am considering:
Allen & Heath SQ7 with DBX168(s) & Dante
Midas M32 with Dante
PreSonus RML AI Series

Is my example below even workable?
Is there a tactile Control Surface that could be implemented?
(FaderPort 16?)
Are there other questions / considerations?

At this point I am simply looking for a setup to "get me off the ground".
I can "move up" to higher end ($20K+ investment) later.


Requirements:

Remote Digital I/O (think stagebox)

56 (min) Channels via Dante or MADI

Tactile or Touch Screen Control Surface

Extensive Control Room Monitoring (Interface to PreSonus Central Station or similar device)

Bidirectional Integration with PreSonus StudioOne DAW
MAC OSX (At least minimal; fader, pan, etc)

Example:

Mix bag of ADAT enabled Audio Interfaces
(PreSonus FireStudio / DigiMax D8, Focusrite Pro 40 / Liquid Mix 56, etc…)
(FS / D8, P40, LM56)
(7) Devices at $1500

ADAT to MADI Format Converter
(Euphonix FC726) (FC726)
$300

Format Conversion Cabling
(REDCO DB50 to ADAT)
(7) Cables at $1000

RME MADIface XT or USB (MFX / MFU)
MFX at $1000

(2) Dell 24 Touch Monitor: P2418HT
(2) at $600

Headphone Distribution (Amps)
(6) at ~ $500

Total: $4900

Not included in the cost:
MACBOOK PRO 17" (MBP17)
PreSonus Central Station Plus
RME TotalMix FX (TMFX)
PreSonus StudioOne v4 (S1v4)
iPad(s)
Headphones
Misc Cabling

Questions:

Would the "Tracking Mix" be made with TMFX or S1v4
I assume using TMFX SubMix with dynamics, EQ and effects for artist cues and initial 2 track capture. Dry tracks sent to DAW. The assumption here is lack of processing power and latency issue with the S1v4 route.

Are the physical output ports on the audio interfaces (FS, D8, P40, LM56, etc) used for artist cue mixes? That is to ask if TMFX is used to create SubMixes routed to these audio interfaces.

What recommendations for Control Surface? I'm thinking of using multiple touch screen monitors / iPad(s) for:
TMFX
S1v4
Metering
Plugins
Artist Individual Cues

Thanks in advance for any and all submission, critque and ridicule :headbang: .
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Re: 56 Channel Digital Studio Build Requirements

Postby James Perrett » Sun Feb 24, 2019 12:00 am

Do you need mic or line level inputs? What sample rate are you planning on using?
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Re: 56 Channel Digital Studio Build Requirements

Postby trunkdog » Sun Feb 24, 2019 7:35 pm

Hi JP - Thx for the response. I'll have a mix bag of Mic/Line. The usual mic'ed guitar and Leslie cabs, drum kit and VOX, then e-Drums, keys and DI's. Unless gear locks me into a rate I'll use 44.1. I've never really entered the sample rate debate and have yet to feel the need for "better". I've just subscribed to the 44.1 allows for human hearing thing. The PreSonus RML32AI (x2) with CS18AI and AVB switch looks like my intended route. I don't think they offer a comparable Series III solution. Not sure about getting the artist cues satisfied. It looks like the PreSonus solution (elegant as it may be) would be EarMix 16's at $400 per artist. I've been searching for a "simple" AVB / CAT5e+ solution to simply send the artist monitor mix I tailor. I guess there's just something about CATe in wall cabling that floats my boat, as compared to routing XLR's; having fought "wires" for 50+ years. Oddly enough I have an aversion to wireless IEM's. I suppose at this point I'm looking for the "poor man's RME solution" :blush:
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Re: 56 Channel Digital Studio Build Requirements

Postby Sam Spoons » Sun Feb 24, 2019 8:09 pm

Why the need for 56 tracks of I/O? You can have 56 (and more) tracks in the DAW with only 8 or 16 I/O.
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Re: 56 Channel Digital Studio Build Requirements

Postby Dave Rowles » Sun Feb 24, 2019 10:38 pm

I agree with Sam here. Why do you need 56 channels? Are you thinking of using this as a live rig and multi-tracking gigs? I'm struggling with this requirement because it's a limiting factor, and I've only ever managed to hit a simultaneous track record of 32 in a studio setting.


I like the SQ mixer, and the extra modelled stuff they are bringing out are pretty good. The SQs only record at 96kHz, so if that's a factor you may want to think about it.
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Re: 56 Channel Digital Studio Build Requirements

Postby trunkdog » Sun Feb 24, 2019 11:20 pm

Sam&Dave (cool, huh?)
Re: Required I/O

I'll need at least as many inputs as it took to track the Allman Brothers.
(Probably 32 for percussive alone…)
Apart from that I will have at least 16 mic inputs in the Drum Room for the acoustic set.
Yet another eight or so for e-Drum triggers / direct outs. Yes, I could capture MIDI drum. I'd post my channel count but I think you get the picture. Granted the majority of my tracking will be in the 32 track range with overdubs. I intend to address a full tracking session on inception.

Roger on the SQ 96k. Also 48 input processing. Damn nice unit though. And ultimately the SQ series may well be the route I initially take.

Thanks for taking the time to offer your inputs; no pun intended. I value the braintrust here at SOS.
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Re: 56 Channel Digital Studio Build Requirements

Postby Sam Spoons » Sun Feb 24, 2019 11:28 pm

Fair enough :thumbup:

I can't comment on the others but the Midas can only handle 40 inputs so may not be a contender.

When it's finished I'd love to see some pics of your studio then, it's a bit more sophisticated than mine ;)
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Re: 56 Channel Digital Studio Build Requirements

Postby Hugh Robjohns » Sun Feb 24, 2019 11:41 pm

32, 40 or 48 recording inputs with a patchbay for 56+ lines from the studio might be a more pragmatic approach when it comes to finding affordable gear...
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Re: 56 Channel Digital Studio Build Requirements

Postby trunkdog » Sun Feb 24, 2019 11:59 pm

Hi Sam - Here is the initial concept draft:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=1ajUH7f9J2s
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Re: 56 Channel Digital Studio Build Requirements

Postby Sam Spoons » Mon Feb 25, 2019 12:02 am

Wow, impressive. Keep us posted :thumbup:
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Re: 56 Channel Digital Studio Build Requirements

Postby trunkdog » Mon Feb 25, 2019 12:06 am

Hugh Robjohns wrote:32, 40 or 48 recording inputs with a patchbay for 56+ lines from the studio might be a more pragmatic approach when it comes to finding affordable gear...
Greets Hugh - So do either my example of cobbled together gear or the RML32AI (x2) schemes float? If I read your suggestion correctly the inputs would be at the console. Or would you care to elaborate on the proposed setup?
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Re: 56 Channel Digital Studio Build Requirements

Postby Sam Spoons » Mon Feb 25, 2019 12:26 am

The Midas/Berry 'AES50' stage boxes can accommodate 64 inputs that can be routed to any of the 32 (40 with auxes) mixer channels but the USB to the computer is only 32x32. Your other options may offer more but how often will you want to record more than 32 simultaneous channels?
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Re: 56 Channel Digital Studio Build Requirements

Postby trunkdog » Mon Feb 25, 2019 1:21 am

Sam Spoons wrote:<<snip>>… but how often will you want to record more than 32 simultaneous channels?

Rarely, but I don't care to back myself into that corner.
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Re: 56 Channel Digital Studio Build Requirements

Postby ef37a » Mon Feb 25, 2019 7:30 am

Hi Trunkdog. I am going to follow your progress but I hope you have better safety procedures than those wood workers or you might not live to use the gear, or at best not have enough fingers!

Rock on,
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Re: 56 Channel Digital Studio Build Requirements

Postby Kwackman » Mon Feb 25, 2019 9:55 am

ef37a wrote: I hope you have better safety procedures than those wood workers or you might not live to use the gear, or at best not have enough fingers!
.

Having watched the promo video 3 times I can't see anything dangerous.
What danger are you referring to?
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Re: 56 Channel Digital Studio Build Requirements

Postby ef37a » Mon Feb 25, 2019 9:58 am

Kwackman wrote:
ef37a wrote: I hope you have better safety procedures than those wood workers or you might not live to use the gear, or at best not have enough fingers!
.

Having watched the promo video 3 times I can't see anything dangerous.
What danger are you referring to?

It's the advert about woodchippers, may not have come up for you?

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Re: 56 Channel Digital Studio Build Requirements

Postby Kwackman » Mon Feb 25, 2019 10:11 am

ef37a wrote:It's the advert about woodchippers, may not have come up for you?

Dave.

No such ad appeared here - maybe Youtube know I'm squeamish!

That looks like a big project you've got going there, Trunkdog, enjoy!
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Re: 56 Channel Digital Studio Build Requirements

Postby ef37a » Mon Feb 25, 2019 12:44 pm

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8qGDaHMqp-s&app=desktop

Didn't come up for me second time, probably me eyes!

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Re: 56 Channel Digital Studio Build Requirements

Postby Dave Rowles » Wed Feb 27, 2019 2:36 pm

Thats cool on the project! If you had a bigger budget the channel count wouldn't be a problem.
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Re: 56 Channel Digital Studio Build Requirements

Postby trunkdog » Wed Feb 27, 2019 3:01 pm

Anyone with thoughts or experience on my first example of mixed bag of ADAT over MadiFace?

What about 32 channels of mixed bag ADAT interfaces via RME DigiFace USB?
Should I just buy the gear and give it a go?
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