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recording an old piano with only an aux out (mono or stereo?)

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Re: recording an old piano with only an aux out (mono or stereo?)

Postby Sam Spoons » Thu Mar 14, 2019 4:24 pm

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Re: recording an old piano with only an aux out (mono or stereo?)

Postby alexhedleymusic » Thu Mar 14, 2019 4:25 pm

alexhedleymusic wrote:
Mike Stranks wrote:Definitely an RCA Phono socket as the AUX OUT.

Are we sure that it isn't stereo, but with only a mono aux-out? The manual isn't explicit as far as I can see.

yeah it doesnt say in the manual as you said... which is annoying iv'e tried to phone yamaha to get to the bottom of it but just get automated crap telling me to send an email which im waiting for a reply for now
sorry i didnt see your bit at the bottom.. i thought that the headphone out would be stereo though anyway? hmmm not sure im confused haha
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Re: recording an old piano with only an aux out (mono or stereo?)

Postby Mike Stranks » Thu Mar 14, 2019 4:28 pm

That's the dilemma... It'll definitely be a stereo socket, but if the keyboard is only mono it'll be sending the same signal to both left and right. Tha's called 'dual mono'.
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Re: recording an old piano with only an aux out (mono or stereo?)

Postby Mike Stranks » Thu Mar 14, 2019 4:30 pm

Whether or not the headphone output is stereo or dual-mono as soon as you plug something in there you'll silence the speakers.

In that situation the only way you could hear what you're playing is to connect headphones to your audio interface.
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Re: recording an old piano with only an aux out (mono or stereo?)

Postby Wonks » Thu Mar 14, 2019 4:31 pm

1-0 to Sam. I though the headphone out was on the back, which was what got me confused, and the manual does refer to it as a 'jack'.

But if it is an RCA output, then you can still get an RCA phono to 1/4"TS lead, plug that into a rotary sim pedal and record with a stereo output that will have definite L and R sounds. But you'd need to be prepared to spend some money on a pedal, and you may not want a Leslie style sound.

Alternately record in mono and put it through a software rotary simulator in whatever DAW software you have.
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Re: recording an old piano with only an aux out (mono or stereo?)

Postby Hugh Robjohns » Thu Mar 14, 2019 4:32 pm

alexhedleymusic wrote:ok but wouldnt this then just be recording in mono?

Yes... because -- as far as I can see from the manual I've read here: https://cz.yamaha.com/files/download/other_assets/2/320522/HC4E.PDF -- it's an entirely mono organ. It only generates a monophonic sound. It's built-in speakers comprise a single 7-inch woofer and single 2-inch tweeter. So there is no stereo spread. It's not like an organ with a rotary speaker system that produces spatial sound.

So mono -- as in a single sound channel -- is all it produces, and so mono is all you can record.

im looking to record the instrument to stereo

Perhaps there's some confusion here about the terminology, and maybe you're concerned that recording via a single input of your interface means the sound will only come from, say, the left channel when replayed.

That could happen if the default configuration of the interface or DAW is set up expecting a conventional two-channel stereo input. However, to overcome that problem, all you need to do is set the recording channel's pan control in your interface and/or DAW software to the centre, and then you'll hear the mono signal from the organ on both left and right channels of your speakers and both sides of your headphones.

This format is called dual-mono because there is only a mono signal, but it appears on both channels identically. It's what you hear when the newsreaders and DJs talk on the radio! Stereo music, dual-mono speech!

... starting to think i should just go through the headphone jack... so for that id just get a mono to dual mono (red/white) connector wouldnt i?

Nope. There's a whole new can of worms to wade through if you take that route.

For starters, the headphones still only produce a dual-mono signal. You have exactly the same organ sound in both earpieces.

Secondly, the headphone output us likely to be noisier than the dedicated Aux output.

And thirdly, if you wanted to record from the headphone output you'd need to use a cable like this with a TRS quarter-inch plug at the headphone socket end, and a pair of TS plugs at the interface end:
[img]
https://d1aeri3ty3izns.cloudfront.net/m ... review.jpg[/img]

...but you'll still only have a dual-mono recording.

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Re: recording an old piano with only an aux out (mono or stereo?)

Postby Hugh Robjohns » Thu Mar 14, 2019 4:34 pm

alexhedleymusic wrote:....as you could just duplicate the track and put it left and right which would also do nothing....

Don't need to duplicate anything. Just record the mono organ output to single mono track in your computer, and PAN it to the centre so it replays on both the left and right channel.

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Re: recording an old piano with only an aux out (mono or stereo?)

Postby Mike Stranks » Thu Mar 14, 2019 4:35 pm

Hugh is right... I've just looked at the manual more closely....

... definitely MONO ONLY.
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Re: recording an old piano with only an aux out (mono or stereo?)

Postby Sam Spoons » Thu Mar 14, 2019 4:36 pm

Being that it is an old, and originally relatively budget, electronic organ I wouldn't be surprised if it was mono. if stereo they would have provided stereo aux?
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Re: recording an old piano with only an aux out (mono or stereo?)

Postby Hugh Robjohns » Thu Mar 14, 2019 4:37 pm

alexhedleymusic wrote:i thought that the headphone out would be stereo though anyway? hmmm not sure im confused haha

Stereo requires the signals on the left and right channels to be different.

As far as I can see, that's not the case with the HC2 becuase it appears to be an entirely mono instrument, and it simply puts the same information on the left and right sides of the headphone output. This is very common in instruments of that era.

When you listen on headphones I presume you hear all the organ sounds 'in the middle of your head', rather than having a spacious spread of sound?

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Re: recording an old piano with only an aux out (mono or stereo?)

Postby alexhedleymusic » Thu Mar 14, 2019 5:25 pm

Ok! so seems like everyones in agreement that its a mono keyboard so thats cool. can anyone say with any certainty which lead i will need to get to record into my interface from the mono aux out in this case. also if anyone could let me know which lead i would need to also do the same thing but from the headphones that would be cool. then il get both leads and see which one works better. thanks guys appreciate the help
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Re: recording an old piano with only an aux out (mono or stereo?)

Postby Hugh Robjohns » Thu Mar 14, 2019 5:29 pm

It would help if you could post a picture of the Aux Out socket so we can confirm absolutely whether it's an RCA-phono or not.

But if it looks like a single one of these (the kind of connectors you find on the back of most hi-fi equipment): Image

You'll need the RCA-TS cable I mentioned first above -- and just use one half of it as discussed!

If you want to use the headphone output instead (although you won't then be able to hear the instrument through it's own speakers as you play), you need the second cable type I described above.

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Re: recording an old piano with only an aux out (mono or stereo?)

Postby Sam Spoons » Thu Mar 14, 2019 5:32 pm

This lead that Hugh linked would be best.

Hugh Robjohns wrote:Image


I wouldn't bother trying the headphone out, the aux will be better (except in the unlikely event that is isn't working)
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Re: recording an old piano with only an aux out (mono or stereo?)

Postby alexhedleymusic » Thu Mar 14, 2019 6:05 pm

cant work out how to attach the image from my phone :(
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Re: recording an old piano with only an aux out (mono or stereo?)

Postby Hugh Robjohns » Thu Mar 14, 2019 6:11 pm

Sorry -- you need to post the image up in a public access hosting site, and then paste the link here. It's a faff... but of we didn't work that way our servers would be groaning under the strain of millions of images, and our hosting costs would be massively higher than they already are!

There's more information here: https://www.soundonsound.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=29&t=62135

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Re: recording an old piano with only an aux out (mono or stereo?)

Postby alexhedleymusic » Thu Mar 14, 2019 6:24 pm

ok so, i cant post an image as my phones also being annoying and wont connect to the internet so its all going balls up basically. so are we saying that we have an two outcomes to my supposed photograph. either its an rca out or the other one cant remember what its called... the two letter one.. was it ts?... im starting to get frustrated about not being able to talk to someone at yamaha about this as everythings all telephone robots and stuff... so im thinking that if i just buy both of these leads then one will be right wnt they?
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Re: recording an old piano with only an aux out (mono or stereo?)

Postby alexhedleymusic » Thu Mar 14, 2019 6:29 pm

https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=aux+o ... CjU3qq6oaM:

Image
it looks like one of these ones... not the red and white sticky out ones
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Re: recording an old piano with only an aux out (mono or stereo?)

Postby Hugh Robjohns » Thu Mar 14, 2019 6:37 pm

A little difficult to tell from that image, but I'm 99% certain they are recessed RCA-phono sockets (with black rather than red/white inserts).

Here's a slightly better image: Image

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Re: recording an old piano with only an aux out (mono or stereo?)

Postby alexhedleymusic » Fri Mar 15, 2019 10:55 am

Hugh Robjohns wrote:A little difficult to tell from that image, but I'm 99% certain they are recessed RCA-phono sockets (with black rather than red/white inserts).

Here's a slightly better image: Image

H

hey hugh yeah just checked and they look like that but theyre kind of stuck out a little bit on a silver type casing thing for the output. annoying i cant get you guys the actual photo but for some reason i cant get my phone to upload the pic... hmm. either way its a choice between two different things right? sorry i know iv'e asked this many times but i keep getting lost in all the posts. so it could be one of two leads is that correct? if so which leads are these again? sorrryyyy hopefully this will be the last question il ask and il just get both leads
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