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Re: SSL Six

Postby The Elf » Fri Jun 14, 2019 9:50 am

Hugh Robjohns wrote:However, I wouldn't be at all surprised if SSL release a bigger version of the SiX (maybe a TWeLVE*) console very soon... :lol:
I'm sending the two Rons around to have a, ahem... conversation with you about what you know... :lol: ;)
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Re: SSL Six

Postby Hugh Robjohns » Fri Jun 14, 2019 10:07 am

Not me mate... I know nuffink... :lol:
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Re: SSL Six

Postby ef37a » Fri Jun 14, 2019 1:34 pm

Hugh Robjohns wrote:
jellyjim wrote:I don't quite get it though. It's not a complete solution, right?

It's 'an ickle' mixer with SSL build quality and circuitry. It's not a Duality console. It's not a computer interface. It's not a Behringer.

If you want something that mixes a few channels together with some flexible facilities in high-quality and with a reasonable monitoring section, it might be the perfect tool. If you want to mix a lot of sources together, or need a lot of mic preamps, or want complex four-band EQ or fader automation, this isn't the tool for you.

I don't see how it can accomodate even my modest set up...

The Six can accommodate up to 12 inputs for summing. If you need more than that (or more than two mic inputs) you'll need a bigger mixer. SSL have a variety of larger mixers available, as do many other manufacturers. :D

I don't see how I can achieve all of the above on this?

You can't. Your requirements demand a larger console... or interface. However, I wouldn't be at all surprised if SSL release a bigger version of the SiX (maybe a TWeLVE*) console very soon... :lol:

(*Notional name only)

And maybe with just S/PDIF out on the main mix?
My suggestion of two mixers was not altogether in jest? I can see two 6's would bend the plastic mightily but very often people run out of inputs on "lesser" machines and it can be the case that although a 16 input mixer is difficult to plant, Room can be found for two smaller footprints?

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Re: SSL Six

Postby Hugh Robjohns » Fri Jun 14, 2019 2:39 pm

ef37a wrote:And maybe with just S/PDIF out on the main mix?

I think the market for which the SiX was designed tends to be quite fussy about converters. So the decision was taken to make the SiX a superb analogue desk -- without any nasty square-edged digital stuff flying around its innards -- and leave the choice of whatever fashionable flavour of digital conversion was required to the end user to be connected externally. I can see the sense in that.

H
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Re: SSL Six

Postby Zukan » Fri Jun 14, 2019 3:00 pm

Hugh Robjohns wrote:Not me mate... I know nuffink... :lol:

You speak with forked tongue!

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Re: SSL Six

Postby ef37a » Fri Jun 14, 2019 5:02 pm

Hugh Robjohns wrote:
ef37a wrote:And maybe with just S/PDIF out on the main mix?

I think the market for which the SiX was designed tends to be quite fussy about converters. So the decision was taken to make the SiX a superb analogue desk -- without any nasty square-edged digital stuff flying around its innards -- and leave the choice of whatever fashionable flavour of digital conversion was required to the end user to be connected externally. I can see the sense in that.

H

'Spose, but, put it in a tin with feed through caps and some RF chokes? Be ok.

Ok, that was a bit twee Hugh but you review plenty of digital stuff with noise floors around -120dB fs and I am sure SSL are up to that?

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Re: SSL Six

Postby The Elf » Fri Jun 14, 2019 5:06 pm

I'm reserving a HUGE facepalm if they miss off digital interfacing this time around! :lol:

(Only semi-serious!) :wink:
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Re: SSL Six

Postby Hugh Robjohns » Fri Jun 14, 2019 5:55 pm

ef37a wrote:... I am sure SSL are up to that?

I'm sure they are... but it's their call to build things to suit the markets they perceive want their stuff. I've no idea what the sales are like for the SiX, but I've met plenty of people who either aspire towards or have already bought SiXs, and a considerably larger number of people who have rejected it as inappropriate for their workflows and requirements...

The inability to serve as an USB interface is the most common criticism I've been hearing, and most have said they want direct USB (or Dante) connectivity rather than S/PDIF or AES3 etc. But as the nice man from SSL said when I looked at the SiX, SSL is a mixer and signal processing manufacturer, not an interface company -- and the interface market is pretty heavily saturated and highly cost-competitive. Perhaps they're unconvinced they could make sufficient headway into that market? I dunno.

But I do think there is a reasonable market for affordable, small-scale analogue SSL consoles, and now that SSL have access to Audiotonix's Chinese production plant that has become a very real option. There are lots of people with Mackies and A&Hs etc that would love something from SSL in their place if it didn't require the selling of major body parts.

It's an interesting time for SSL, and the company is branching out into some new market areas with some very interesting products.

H
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Re: SSL Six

Postby The Elf » Fri Jun 14, 2019 6:54 pm

Interesting that you've met more 'nearly' customers like me then, Hugh. I was afraid that may be the case.

A SiX without digital I/O was not for me. I doubt that a TWeLVE *with* digital I/O would be for me, either. I don't need more channels, a bigger footprint, or a wider price tag.

I find the idea of Dante interesting. I didn't have much success with it in my recent attempts to use it, but I do feel it lies in my future.
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Re: SSL Six

Postby James Perrett » Fri Jun 14, 2019 8:31 pm

I wonder if there is a good case to be made for SSL adding an accessory connector to a future version and then creating a matching digital box that attaches to the mixer somehow. A bit like a laptop docking station perhaps?
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Re: SSL Six

Postby The Elf » Fri Jun 14, 2019 9:05 pm

Or like the digital output option I have fitted to one of my SuperAnalogue Channels? If they could do it in the past I see no reason they couldn't do it now.

I like your idea, and I sincerely hope they could do something like you suggest (not a separate box, though - I like the 'dock' idea!).
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Re: SSL Six

Postby Arpangel » Sat Jun 15, 2019 8:28 am

One day recently I had one of those "who cares" moments and actually considered ordering a Six to replace my Mackie 1202, all was fine, but the thing that stopped me from picking up the phone wasn't channel count, looks, lack of digital I/O, it was........D-Sub's!!!!
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Re: SSL Six

Postby ef37a » Sat Jun 15, 2019 8:39 am

Arpangel wrote:One day recently I had one of those "who cares" moments and actually considered ordering a Six to replace my Mackie 1202, all was fine, but the thing that stopped me from picking up the phone wasn't channel count, looks, lack of digital I/O, it was........D-Sub's!!!!

Awww! Surely if you have a sufficiently flexible friend for a Six you can run to some breakout cables? Or, like me you might find making your own very zen?

Err? NOT put off by the external PSU?

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Re: SSL Six

Postby Arpangel » Sat Jun 15, 2019 8:59 am

ef37a wrote:
Arpangel wrote:One day recently I had one of those "who cares" moments and actually considered ordering a Six to replace my Mackie 1202, all was fine, but the thing that stopped me from picking up the phone wasn't channel count, looks, lack of digital I/O, it was........D-Sub's!!!!

Awww! Surely if you have a sufficiently flexible friend for a Six you can run to some breakout cables? Or, like me you might find making your own very zen?

Err? NOT put off by the external PSU?

Dave.

Ha! Not worried about the PSU, I don't know what it is about D-Sub's? they are an expense, but I find them a bit comfusing, you have to label everything, and on a mixer that size there isn't enough I/O to not use XLR/Jack connectors. So you've got the D-Sub and the PSU to carry around to gigs etc.
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Re: SSL Six

Postby jellyjim » Sat Jun 15, 2019 6:26 pm

I reckon there's definitely still a market for high quality analogue consoles with a slightly lower spec than a full desk. Perhaps even a gap in the market.

Analogue suits my workflow, outlook and expectations. I'm a middle-aged man with a good salary (thank you Shiva) so these kind of prices aren't unmanageable.

I like to eliminate variables. SSL is a guarantee of quality. If the sound coming out of it is rubbish then I'm to blame, not the gear. I find that kind of thing clears my creative decks.

Is it just me or does this Neve console sound a bit shit? Um, no it's just you, cloth ears :bouncy:

I find myself Googling things like "vintage Sony broadcast mixers that sound fab but haven't gone crazy prices yet" or looking at moth eaten Ameks on Reverb and thinking "just needs a polish" ...

Whether I need to go as far as SSL kind of quality is probably a question worth asking myself but anyway, I'll await the SiX-and-a-bit, or EiGHT or TWeLVe or whatever it might be ... or just dump a synth ;)
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Re: SSL Six

Postby jellyjim » Sat Jun 15, 2019 6:44 pm

Great walkthrough here of an application similar to my own and a clear demonstration of just how versatile it is

https://www.soundtech.co.uk/musicians-b ... onic-music
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Re: SSL Six

Postby jellyjim » Sat Jun 15, 2019 11:09 pm

The manual says:

Foldback Outputs as Effects Sends
It is perfectly feasible to use the Foldback Outputs as stereo feeds to external effects processors such as delays and reverbs. Typically, the processor’s output would be connected to one of the External returns, then summed to the main bus using the External summing switches to the Main Bus above the Main Fader.

I don't quite follow this. Channels 1-6 can send to both STE Cue 1 and STE Cue 2 and the output jacks are at the back. So these could be, for example, stereo reverb send and stereo delay send. But where are the returns? I was going to say Ext 1 and Ext 2 but they appear in the F/BACK section under the G-SERIES BUS COMP section and this looks like a send to me. Is this section actually selecting what's sent to the main mix bus (of the three options in it)?

Hmm. Looking at the manual I see the MON SOURCE selection which has volume for Ext 1 and Ext 2 so could these be return levels for the reverb and delay. I think that F/BACK1 F/BACK 2 section is confusing me ... help! :headbang:
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Re: SSL Six

Postby Hugh Robjohns » Sun Jun 16, 2019 10:43 am

jellyjim wrote:...But where are the returns? I was going to say Ext 1 and Ext 2 but they appear in the F/BACK section under the G-SERIES BUS COMP section and this looks like a send to me. Is this section actually selecting what's sent to the main mix bus (of the three options in it)?

The Ext 1 and Ext2 stereo inputs would be a good way of getting stereo effects returns back into the main mix bus. The input level controls are in the monitoring section, as you say, and there are buttons above the main output fader to route them into the main stereo mix bus.

I think that F/BACK1 F/BACK 2 section is confusing me ... help! :headbang:

The F/Back section is just SSL's fancy-pants name for the Aux master outputs or artists headphones. It's foldback to the artist...

The channels have (aux) sends called 'Stereo Cues'. They route into the corresponding F/Back 1/2 sections which are normally expected to drive the artist headphones. Consequently, they are equipped with extra facilities beyond a simple Aux master.

They have the usual output level control and buttons to switch the respective (aux) Cue sends globally pre/post. But there's also individual talkback buttons and options to route the external inputs (ext1, ext2) into the artist headphones.
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Re: SSL Six

Postby jellyjim » Sun Jun 16, 2019 10:53 am

Great, thanks Hugh. That makes sense.
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Re: SSL Six

Postby ef37a » Sun Jun 16, 2019 4:34 pm

Jellyjim, if old analogue desks are your thing lookey here..https://homerecording.com/bbs/general-d ... 401007/15/

The guy Sweetbeats is THE dog's danglers with old tape machines and mixers. He has spent a small fortune of that Studer desk but reckons it sounds blissful and the build quality is second to none.

The whole thread will take you a good two wet Saturdays to get through but I bet you will learn a few things. There is beardy tweaky guy that interjects. Knows "stuff" and has some good test gear it would seem but a bit of a PITA. Everyone is polite to him however although we suspect he is a bit "fur coat and no nickers"!

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