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Nasty resonance - acoustic guitar

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Re: Nasty resonance - acoustic guitar

PostPosted: Mon May 20, 2019 2:09 am
by Generic Moniker
Well I stripped down recording chain to Sennheiser MK4 > Steinberg UR44 > Reaper with no input plugins or track plugins > Laptop and Desktop. Monitoring through Paradigm Monitor 3 and Shure SRH840 headphones. I tried various rooms, mics, preamps, computers, cables and the resonance has not changed. I even tried changing guitars! Lol.

As odd as it seems, I've concluded that the resonance is coming from the guitars. Even when strummed acoustically (not recording), I can hear it. I can hear it especially well in the treated room but I can hear it in any room now that I know what to listen for. The open C chord makes it pop. Am I crazy? The offending frequencies are close but not identical in the two guitars. 1kHz plus or minus and other harmonics.

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Re: Nasty resonance - acoustic guitar

PostPosted: Mon May 20, 2019 2:24 am
by Tim Gillett
Thanks for the sample. The open G string sound after the strum is quite prominent.

There's also a beating sound. In the open C chord, there might be two G's, one from the open G string, plus a G harmonic from the C note on the A string. Maybe they are beating due to be slightly out of tune.

Re: Nasty resonance - acoustic guitar

PostPosted: Mon May 20, 2019 2:52 am
by Generic Moniker
Thanks for listening! Yes, tuning is a bit duff. Do you hear the lasting resonance in 1 kHz range after fundamental G dissipates?

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Re: Nasty resonance - acoustic guitar

PostPosted: Mon May 20, 2019 2:55 am
by Generic Moniker
I suppose that's the G harmonic from C fretted on A string? Thanks for this, Tim.

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Re: Nasty resonance - acoustic guitar

PostPosted: Mon May 20, 2019 3:01 am
by Generic Moniker
Google tells me that 1046.6 Hz is C6. That roughly corresponds with the offending frequency I am hearing.

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Re: Nasty resonance - acoustic guitar

PostPosted: Mon May 20, 2019 10:41 am
by Sam Spoons
Do you get the same ring when playing a different chord (i.e. one that it is not in tune with)?

Re: Nasty resonance - acoustic guitar

PostPosted: Mon May 20, 2019 11:30 am
by CS70
A different angle - have u tried a different room, chair, clothes ? :-D

There may be something that gets excited and start vibrating at a certain frequency someplace else... and it fools you in thinking it's the instrument.

I once spent lot of time getting crazy chasing a very odd sound, only to discover it was something completely independent vibrating near my desk only when I was playing a specific note on the guitar.

Re: Nasty resonance - acoustic guitar

PostPosted: Mon May 20, 2019 12:23 pm
by shufflebeat
Sam Spoons wrote:If it's identical in two different guitars it almost certainly isn't the guitars that are causing it (what are the odds?)

Often the truth has already been spoken, Grasshopper:

Only commonality between the guitars is the strings - Elixer Nanoweb.

Re: Nasty resonance - acoustic guitar

PostPosted: Mon May 20, 2019 3:40 pm
by Tomás Mulcahy
Sounds like Elixers doing their thing. Adding extra harmonics (compared to, say, Martin strings) that sound like brightness to the ear, but come out as metallic harmonics on mic. I've found it's not really a problem in a mix, but I still don't like them.

Re: Nasty resonance - acoustic guitar

PostPosted: Mon May 20, 2019 8:20 pm
by Watchmaker
CS70 wrote:A different angle - have u tried a different room, chair, clothes ? :-D

There may be something that gets excited and start vibrating at a certain frequency someplace else... and it fools you in thinking it's the instrument.

I once spent lot of time getting crazy chasing a very odd sound, only to discover it was something completely independent vibrating near my desk only when I was playing a specific note on the guitar.

This is a good call. Sympathetic vibrations. Any drums in the room? other stringed instruments?

Re: Nasty resonance - acoustic guitar

PostPosted: Mon May 20, 2019 10:38 pm
by Sam Spoons
I think it's a sympathetic resonance from the other strings and suspect all guitars will do it 'cos it's simple physics. Some will exaggerate it more than others but if you have an open C chord then C will be a first, third and 6th harmonic of both C's for starters so when you let the chord ring the will gradually become more dominant. If the guitar has a resonance at one of those pitches it may be excited by close harmonics in different chords when it will be discordant rather than 'in tune' as in the audio file. If it's in tune then it's part of the character of the (or any maybe, will test some of mine when I get chance). guitar and something to live with or embrace, if not then I'm not sure how to deal with it except that some keys, on acoustic guitars, always sound better than others.

Re: Nasty resonance - acoustic guitar

PostPosted: Tue May 21, 2019 12:20 am
by Watchmaker
yes, I went down a bunny trail because the notion of damping a guitar appeared before me so, you know. research.

I didn't find anything much, we I did but, anyway, as a drummer I use self sticky dampener pads to pull ring our of toms and snare and thought a similar approach might be well explored in guitar land. Not so it appears, but I did find this which I thought was a pretty good overview.

Re: Nasty resonance - acoustic guitar

PostPosted: Tue May 21, 2019 2:08 am
by Generic Moniker
Thanks for all the suggestions. I've checked for other sources of resonance in the room(s). Nope, not that. Pretty certain it's the guitar. I will change the brand/type of strings but I think it is as Sam and others have suggested: it's inherent to the instrument. The ringing harmonics are always present but they seem so exaggerated when recorded with a variety of condenser mics. I will experiment with mic position, attack, pick etc to hopefully minimize the effect.

Funny I never noticed this in the past. I suppose it's a good sign. I'm learning. Thanks.

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Re: Nasty resonance - acoustic guitar

PostPosted: Tue May 21, 2019 2:11 am
by Generic Moniker
Watchmaker wrote:yes, I went down a bunny trail because the notion of damping a guitar appeared before me so, you know. research.

I didn't find anything much, we I did but, anyway, as a drummer I use self sticky dampener pads to pull ring our of toms and snare and thought a similar approach might be well explored in guitar land. Not so it appears, but I did find this which I thought was a pretty good overview.
Funny, as a drummer I immediately thought of damping! Thanks for the link. Interesting stuff.

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Re: Nasty resonance - acoustic guitar

PostPosted: Tue May 21, 2019 2:22 am
by Generic Moniker
...but I hope it's the Elixers!

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