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Digital mixer beckons...

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Re: Digital mixer beckons...

PostPosted: Mon Jun 10, 2019 9:39 am
by Hugh Robjohns
EDITED TO ADD: Sorry -- catching up and have ended up posting independently almost exactly the same as forumuser840717... great minds and all that...

Arpangel wrote:Sony Oxford? The BBC bought a lot of those...

No, they really didn't... I'm not sure anyone did buy any, actually! A few studios were given one to play with for a while, but I'm not sure if anyone actually parted money for one, and it was, sadly, a commercial failure.

Image

I remember seeing one for the first time in the BBC control room of the Wigmore Hall, we used it to rest our home-made mixer on! We could have used it if we had wanted, but it was way too daunting, if it was a conventional desk, say, a Neve or some other brilliant analogue desk we definitly would have used it, and it would have been instantly familiar.

Are you thinking of the Sony DMX-R100?

Image

That was a really lovely little desk, and surprisingly popular with classic recording types (including the BBC).

But......big analogue desks are redundant these days...

Broadly true... and yes, compact digital desks can offer many more facilities in a much smaller space. And yet I find I enjoy using my Calrec Minimix2 far more than my Yamaha DM1000! ;)

Re: Digital mixer beckons...

PostPosted: Mon Jun 10, 2019 9:55 am
by Arpangel
Hugh Robjohns wrote:EDITED TO ADD: Sorry -- catching up and have ended up posting independently almost exactly the same as forumuser840717... great minds and all that...

Arpangel wrote:Sony Oxford? The BBC bought a lot of those...

No, they really didn't... I'm not sure anyone did buy any, actually! A few studios were given one to play with for a while, but I'm not sure if anyone actually parted money for one, and it was, sadly, a commercial failure.

Image

I remember seeing one for the first time in the BBC control room of the Wigmore Hall, we used it to rest our home-made mixer on! We could have used it if we had wanted, but it was way too daunting, if it was a conventional desk, say, a Neve or some other brilliant analogue desk we definitly would have used it, and it would have been instantly familiar.

Are you thinking of the Sony DMX-R100?

Image

That was a really lovely little desk, and surprisingly popular with classic recording types (including the BBC).

But......big analogue desks are redundant these days...

Broadly true... and yes, compact digital desks can offer many more facilities in a much smaller space. And yet I find I enjoy using my Calrec Minimix2 far more than my Yamaha DM1000! ;)

I was alaways a fan of Audio Developments mixers, I've never owned one, but they look fabulous! I remember drooling over them in Studio Sound magazine.

Re: Digital mixer beckons...

PostPosted: Mon Jun 10, 2019 11:17 am
by Urthlupe
Arpangel wrote:I was always a fan of Audio Developments mixers, I've never owned one, but they look fabulous! I remember drooling over them in Studio Sound magazine.

Tom (Cryan - Audio Developments) is still in business around the corner.......

If you’re still into the idea drop me PM and I’ll put you in touch :bouncy:

Kindest

Loopy

Re: Digital mixer beckons...

PostPosted: Mon Jun 10, 2019 9:22 pm
by Arpangel
Urthlupe wrote:
Arpangel wrote:I was always a fan of Audio Developments mixers, I've never owned one, but they look fabulous! I remember drooling over them in Studio Sound magazine.

Tom (Cryan - Audio Developments) is still in business around the corner.......

If you’re still into the idea drop me PM and I’ll put you in touch :bouncy:

Kindest

Loopy

Thanks Hugh, but I'm guessing they'll still be pretty expensive, and given my recent "voyage to the dark side" via digital desks I may not have a use for something like that anymore.

Re: Digital mixer beckons...

PostPosted: Mon Jun 10, 2019 9:42 pm
by Hugh Robjohns
Arpangel wrote:Thanks Hugh...

it was Loopy offering the introductions!

I'm guessing they'll still be pretty expensive...

Oh yes! Properly engineered, bomb-proof analogue mixers designed for decades of reliable use in harsh professional conditions. Think several grand for eight channels! Even a second-hand AD149 would set you back £3k or more and a new one is closer to £10k.

Re: Digital mixer beckons...

PostPosted: Tue Jun 11, 2019 1:40 am
by Urthlupe
Oooooo, to be mistaken for Robjohns......

....and without having to dress up......

:blush: :blush: :blush:

Arpy, you made my day baby..... xxxxxxxx

Loopy

Re: Digital mixer beckons...

PostPosted: Tue Jun 11, 2019 9:37 am
by Hugh Robjohns
Arpangel wrote:... I remember seeing one for the first time in the BBC control room of the Wigmore Hall, we used it to rest our home-made mixer on!

Just because I am this nerdy... I've checked and it was a Sony DMX-R100 console in the Wigmore Hall, years back, but it is currently a Digico SD9.

Image

Re: Digital mixer beckons...

PostPosted: Wed Jun 12, 2019 6:43 pm
by Arpangel
Hugh Robjohns wrote:
Arpangel wrote:... I remember seeing one for the first time in the BBC control room of the Wigmore Hall, we used it to rest our home-made mixer on!

Just because I am this nerdy... I've checked and it was a Sony DMX-R100 console in the Wigmore Hall, years back, but it is currently a Digico SD9.

Image

It was about 4 years ago I was in that room, they had the Sony then.
Digico???? Blimey, do the Beeb normally go for this type of desk for live broadcast/recording?
I can remember the gear in that room, we were recording a tenor and string quartet, they had K+H 0300 monitors, Nagra digital recorders, a Lexicon 480, and an old HH power amp for talk back. Upstairs was another studio with a lot more stuff, I think that was run by an in-house engineer.

Re: Digital mixer beckons...

PostPosted: Thu Jun 13, 2019 1:14 pm
by OneWorld
Luke W wrote:Another vote for interface with no mixer here, as others have mentioned with the software that comes with the likes of RME/UA etc, routing is just as versatile as having a mixer (if not more so) and the space saved is always a welcome bonus. Sam's point about cost of I/O count is a good one though.

Control surfaces are hit and miss for me, the integration has to be really tight or it just doesn't seem worth it. With live work I still like as many faders/controls to hand as is practical, but for the studio I'm generally happy with far less.

I agree. I have a control surface and in fact was an evangelist for them. I slaved over Cubase setting up custom templates, so that each session was predictable - eg fader 1 always the lead vox, fader 2 always, right through the various VSTs, group faders etc it was a lot of faffing about but got it right. Then I updated to Cubase 10 and made sure my Win10 was bang up to date - and that's trashed everything, in fact the control surface has been turned off, it won't work properly, sometimes recalls all the settings, sometimes doesn't, sometimes Cubase 'sees' the controller, next session it doesn't, sometimes it works and then drops off the radar half way through a session, so there's now a £450 dust magnet now

Re: Digital mixer beckons...

PostPosted: Thu Jun 13, 2019 4:23 pm
by Arpangel
OneWorld wrote:
Luke W wrote:Another vote for interface with no mixer here, as others have mentioned with the software that comes with the likes of RME/UA etc, routing is just as versatile as having a mixer (if not more so) and the space saved is always a welcome bonus. Sam's point about cost of I/O count is a good one though.

Control surfaces are hit and miss for me, the integration has to be really tight or it just doesn't seem worth it. With live work I still like as many faders/controls to hand as is practical, but for the studio I'm generally happy with far less.

I agree. I have a control surface and in fact was an evangelist for them. I slaved over Cubase setting up custom templates, so that each session was predictable - eg fader 1 always the lead vox, fader 2 always, right through the various VSTs, group faders etc it was a lot of faffing about but got it right. Then I updated to Cubase 10 and made sure my Win10 was bang up to date - and that's trashed everything, in fact the control surface has been turned off, it won't work properly, sometimes recalls all the settings, sometimes doesn't, sometimes Cubase 'sees' the controller, next session it doesn't, sometimes it works and then drops off the radar half way through a session, so there's now a £450 dust magnet now

That's bad, but that's computers for you, I'm almost giving up on them, but for editing and compiling, I'm not going back to razor blades and tape, that's a step too far.

Re: Digital mixer beckons...

PostPosted: Thu Jun 20, 2019 8:46 am
by Arpangel
OK, things have become more drastic here, I've gone totally in the box :o
I didn't have enough inputs on my Motu originally, but I just got rid of a few sound sources, synths etc, job done! Do I miss them? No.
The Buchla has been the inspiration for this drastic move, it's all I need, I've never been more productive, so it's an abvious thing to do, just get rid of stuff that's actually a distraction and not contributing to anything.
I'm OK, I haven't had any side effects, my blood pressure is normal, I'm not shaking!
It does feel a bit weird looking at my table with hardly any stuff on it, but it's actually very liberating.

Re: Digital mixer beckons...

PostPosted: Thu Jun 20, 2019 11:19 am
by Bob Bickerton
Well if you’re feeling that good about it now, just think how positive it will feel when it’s all second nature! :clap: :clap: :clap:

Bob

Re: Digital mixer beckons...

PostPosted: Thu Jun 20, 2019 2:40 pm
by blinddrew
Arpangel wrote:I'm OK, I haven't had any side effects, my blood pressure is normal, I'm not shaking!
It does feel a bit weird looking at my table with hardly any stuff on it, but it's actually very liberating.
Don't tell everyone! The whole industry will collapse!
;)

Re: Digital mixer beckons...

PostPosted: Thu Jun 20, 2019 7:04 pm
by OneWorld
Arpangel wrote:
OneWorld wrote:
Luke W wrote:Another vote for interface with no mixer here, as others have mentioned with the software that comes with the likes of RME/UA etc, routing is just as versatile as having a mixer (if not more so) and the space saved is always a welcome bonus. Sam's point about cost of I/O count is a good one though.

Control surfaces are hit and miss for me, the integration has to be really tight or it just doesn't seem worth it. With live work I still like as many faders/controls to hand as is practical, but for the studio I'm generally happy with far less.

I agree. I have a control surface and in fact was an evangelist for them. I slaved over Cubase setting up custom templates, so that each session was predictable - eg fader 1 always the lead vox, fader 2 always, right through the various VSTs, group faders etc it was a lot of faffing about but got it right. Then I updated to Cubase 10 and made sure my Win10 was bang up to date - and that's trashed everything, in fact the control surface has been turned off, it won't work properly, sometimes recalls all the settings, sometimes doesn't, sometimes Cubase 'sees' the controller, next session it doesn't, sometimes it works and then drops off the radar half way through a session, so there's now a £450 dust magnet now

That's bad, but that's computers for you, I'm almost giving up on them, but for editing and compiling, I'm not going back to razor blades and tape, that's a step too far.

It's working again now, and the issue was this,,,,,

In the April/May Win10 update there is this issue of 10 MIDI devices, but that is a but confusing, the 10 devices restriction only applies to some hardware, Korg and ICON QCON at least.

And what can happen if you have the ICON QCON at slot 10 and you install another MIDI device, the ICON QCON can be displaced and ends up at 11, and it ceases to work.

And you can even delete some devices but the Registry still has it at location 11 (yes one might ask why more than 10 device slots shown if there is a 10 device restriction? It's not a Win10 issue but some manufacturers MIDI drivers)

So I was pointed in the direction of a Korg utility 'Uninstall KORG-USB MIDI Device' and what that does is list and display all MIDI drivers, and sure enough I had loads of them as even though some MIDI hardware had been un-installed when I sold it, the Registry still had them there and thus the 10 device limit breached. So I was able to go down the list until I got down to 10 devices and my ICON QCON moved to slot 10 - problem solved and now it's working fine (touch wood!)

For the past week I'd installing/uninstalling, trying different USB slots, which made things worse as because as soon as something was plugged in it added yet another location to the registry, so I had about 6 ICON QCON showing but all of them >10 and then I came across the Korg utility and that fixed things, and gave me the opportunity to scour the Registry of some redundant entries. I wish there was some way of getting rid of all the other detrius in the Registry. I have yet to come across a utility that truly scavenged the Registry - many claim to but after I have run them I go back and check and a lot of stuff remains

Re: Digital mixer beckons...

PostPosted: Thu Jun 20, 2019 8:05 pm
by BillB
OneWorld wrote:So I was pointed in the direction of a Korg utility 'Uninstall KORG-USB MIDI Device' and what that does is list and display all MIDI drivers, and sure enough I had loads of them as even though some MIDI hardware had been un-installed when I sold it, the Registry still had them there and thus the 10 device limit breached.

That sounds useful - thanks for the tip :thumbup:

Re: Digital mixer beckons...

PostPosted: Thu Jun 20, 2019 8:50 pm
by Arpangel
blinddrew wrote:
Arpangel wrote:I'm OK, I haven't had any side effects, my blood pressure is normal, I'm not shaking!
It does feel a bit weird looking at my table with hardly any stuff on it, but it's actually very liberating.
Don't tell everyone! The whole industry will collapse!
;)

Well, my focus has just changed, and I've finally found my voice, after decades of experimenting and buying/selling.
The Buchla.
All of the peripherals of recording, just don't seem important anymore, the simplest and most direct method of recording appeals to me now. But someone said in another thread of mine about hi-fI, the technology was well known in the late 60's. But manufacturers have to sell stuff, it's the emporors new clothes as usual. But this is an equipment forum, and we all like to see what's new, but it's just not important to me that much anymore, like when I was younger.