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Quad HIFI Ideas?

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Re: Quad HIFI Ideas?

Postby Ian Shaw » Thu Jun 06, 2019 5:10 pm

Well ,it all lights up as it should. All the connecting leads are present & correct. I'll find a better way of posting a pic once I've tried it out
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Re: Quad HIFI Ideas?

Postby blinddrew » Thu Jun 06, 2019 5:11 pm

Apologies, works on a different browser for me. :)
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Re: Quad HIFI Ideas?

Postby Martin Walker » Thu Jun 06, 2019 7:13 pm

Wow - still give me goosebumps seeing that 'so individual' Quad gear after all these years :beamup:


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Re: Quad HIFI Ideas?

Postby Sam Spoons » Thu Jun 06, 2019 7:31 pm

FWIW I still own that other '70s classic a Sugden A48 (yup the orange and brown one.....) :D

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Re: Quad HIFI Ideas?

Postby Ian Shaw » Thu Jun 06, 2019 7:55 pm

Sam Spoons wrote:FWIW I still own that other '70s classic a Sugden A48 (yup the orange and brown one.....) :D

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Touché. Anyone beat that?!

Martin Walker wrote:Wow - still give me goosebumps seeing that 'so individual' Quad gear after all these years :beamup:


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I remember going some HIFI specialist with my Dad to demo the quad setup with the electrostatics & the guy put on my favourite Genesis album- Trick of the Tail, I think- I was pretty much pinned back in the chair by the volume, but ,man, what a sound!
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Re: Quad HIFI Ideas?

Postby Logarhythm » Thu Jun 06, 2019 8:08 pm

Sam Spoons wrote:Touché. Anyone beat that?!

Love the colours on that Sugden :D
At risk of extending the 70s hifi love-in, I have a Sansui AU 20000 that I'm rather fond of:

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Re: Quad HIFI Ideas?

Postby Sam Spoons » Thu Jun 06, 2019 9:37 pm

Swap you then :smirk: The Quad was the one when I were a lad (33/303 back then) when I was buying the Sugden was more 'affordable' and considered pretty good. I don't run a 'hifi' any more as I do any listening in the studio.

Do you still have the electrostatics? A mate of my dad had a pair and they were awesome.

I also have a Quad 522 (a 405 in a rack case with BBC mods applied) which was my main PA amp for several years before settling down to studio life. It's awaiting some TLC as I type before returning to the studio.
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Re: Quad HIFI Ideas?

Postby John Willett » Thu Jun 06, 2019 9:47 pm

That Quat setup is perfect :thumbup:

The 34 pre-amp was basically a 44 in a smaller box. I think it missed rhe excellent tilt tone control the 44 had.

The ESL 63 were superb loudspeakers (Tony Faulner used (uses) them as main monitors for classical music recording. They did lack deep bass, though. But they are prone to being affected by room acoustics as they have a fig-8 radiation pattern.

I still think that system would still run rings around most modern hi-fi systems. :thumbup:
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Re: Quad HIFI Ideas?

Postby ef37a » Fri Jun 07, 2019 12:52 am

I was approached many years ago by one of the most successful disco businesses in the town to fix the power amp/deck preamp that had failed. This used the ubiquitous 2N3055s and was optimistically rated at 70W pch.

After it had failed a second time I convinced them to splash out on a pair of Quad 50Es. "But only 50 watts" they bemoaned. "Trust me" I said and was proved right. The 50Es easily kicked more A than the cheap disco amps and went on without trouble for years. At least I never got another call!

I knew of the Quads because dad was chippy forman for an organ builders and they were using the same amps to power a pedal board speaker (monophonic Germanium transistors!)

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Re: Quad HIFI Ideas?

Postby Arpangel » Fri Jun 07, 2019 7:41 am

Quad and a lot of other established British brands were a victim of the Japanese hi-fI boom of the 70's, products by the likes of Trio, Sony, Pioneer etc were really much better value for money, better built, and in some cases sounded way better than a lot of British hi-fi at the time, they were also more reliable and less idiosyncratic.
I had a Quad 303/33 in 1978 and my friends Trio pre-power combination just blew it out of the water sound wise, it was quite depressing.
I'll never forget that system of his, it sounded stunning, Michell Hydraulic Reference turntable, Trio LO series pre/power amp, Infinity hybrid electrostatic speakers, and a Nakamichi Dragon cassette deck. The Infinity spekers overcame the lack of bass you get with electrostatics, they had a 12inch bass driver, but with electrostatic units handling the mid and top.
But now older hi-fi is far superior to a lot of new stuff, I think it was the use of discreet components back then, cheap generic IC's are used a lot these days.
I'm looking at buying a new amp, short list is a Croft Integrated, or if I can run to it a McIntosh of some sort, but the jury is out, can't think of anything else though that can compete, at the moment.
PS, a very underrated brand at the time were Ferrograph, they had a lovely amplifier, sounded wonderful, wouldn't mind one of those if I could find one.

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Re: Quad HIFI Ideas?

Postby Mike Stranks » Fri Jun 07, 2019 8:36 am

When I first met my father-in-law-to-be I commented with approval on his Sugden amp and tuner set-up.... after that I was home and dry! :lol:
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Re: Quad HIFI Ideas?

Postby ef37a » Fri Jun 07, 2019 9:20 am

"cheap generic IC's are used a lot these days."

You are in for a bad time then Arpangel because just about everything you have ever heard, hear now and ever likely to hear was amplified, buffered or processed through many dozens of those "cheap generic ICs" you seem to despise.

The NE5532 was/is the mainstay of the audio electronics industry. The distortion is so low that even the best analysers struggle to resolve it above noise. Their noise level is extremely low (and the LM4562 even better but more expensive) to the point that you will find it hard source a program nearly as good!

The most common FET input chip, the TL072 is not as good if you want to drive low loads (under 5k say) but is otherwise a perfectly acceptable device. Has a higher slew rate than the NEs but that is just tweaky bllx and matters not for audio applications.

The only area where discrete components are better is for noise critical applications like mic pre amps and (very posh!) summing amplifiers but that is just a noise issue, has nothing to do with subjective sound quality and if you can run to a decent input transformer the NE5534 will beat a transistor for noise. (RED pre amp!)

If a 20dB discrete amplifier sounds differently from a 5532 set for 20dB the discrete amp is faulty!

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Re: Quad HIFI Ideas?

Postby Arpangel » Fri Jun 07, 2019 9:57 am

ef37a wrote:"cheap generic IC's are used a lot these days."

You are in for a bad time then Arpangel because just about everything you have ever heard, hear now and ever likely to hear was amplified, buffered or processed through many dozens of those "cheap generic ICs" you seem to despise.

The NE5532 was/is the mainstay of the audio electronics industry. The distortion is so low that even the best analysers struggle to resolve it above noise. Their noise level is extremely low (and the LM4562 even better but more expensive) to the point that you will find it hard source a program nearly as good!

The most common FET input chip, the TL072 is not as good if you want to drive low loads (under 5k say) but is otherwise a perfectly acceptable device. Has a higher slew rate than the NEs but that is just tweaky bllx and matters not for audio applications.

The only area where discrete components are better is for noise critical applications like mic pre amps and (very posh!) summing amplifiers but that is just a noise issue, has nothing to do with subjective sound quality and if you can run to a decent input transformer the NE5534 will beat a transistor for noise. (RED pre amp!)

If a 20dB discrete amplifier sounds differently from a 5532 set for 20dB the discrete amp is faulty!

Dave.

Interesting, I have an old Trio KA1500, I can't see any IC's in it at all. It's all, by the looks of it, discreet components and hand wired. Sounds very good though, and it was a budget amp at the time.
There was a time in the 80's lots of BADA shops, all had the same dogged philosophy, and I thought a lot of that Naim, Linn, Rotel stuff sounded pretty bad TBQH. It was sort of all down hill a bit from then.
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Re: Quad HIFI Ideas?

Postby ef37a » Fri Jun 07, 2019 10:47 am

Arpangel wrote:
ef37a wrote:"cheap generic IC's are used a lot these days."

You are in for a bad time then Arpangel because just about everything you have ever heard, hear now and ever likely to hear was amplified, buffered or processed through many dozens of those "cheap generic ICs" you seem to despise.

The NE5532 was/is the mainstay of the audio electronics industry. The distortion is so low that even the best analysers struggle to resolve it above noise. Their noise level is extremely low (and the LM4562 even better but more expensive) to the point that you will find it hard source a program nearly as good!

The most common FET input chip, the TL072 is not as good if you want to drive low loads (under 5k say) but is otherwise a perfectly acceptable device. Has a higher slew rate than the NEs but that is just tweaky bllx and matters not for audio applications.

The only area where discrete components are better is for noise critical applications like mic pre amps and (very posh!) summing amplifiers but that is just a noise issue, has nothing to do with subjective sound quality and if you can run to a decent input transformer the NE5534 will beat a transistor for noise. (RED pre amp!)

If a 20dB discrete amplifier sounds differently from a 5532 set for 20dB the discrete amp is faulty!

Dave.

Interesting, I have an old Trio KA1500, I can't see any IC's in it at all. It's all, by the looks of it, discreet components and hand wired. Sounds very good though, and it was a budget amp at the time.
There was a time in the 80's lots of BADA shops, all had the same dogged philosophy, and I thought a lot of that Naim, Linn, Rotel stuff sounded pretty bad TBQH. It was sort of all down hill a bit from then.

The Trio would probably have "sounded" even better for the use of a couple of NEs! (I put sounded in " " because I doubt anyone could hear the difference in practice)
It is for example very difficult to make a really linear Baxandall tone control using the low loop gain of discrete transistors. Accurate RIAA equalisation and adequate headroom for phono preamps is also better done with op amps, the NE5534 for instance is hard to beat for noise. The only area where discretes score is the use of parallel devices in MC front ends.

Naim? Linn sound bad? Depends who you ask. These products were reckoned to be the dogs whatsits back in the day.

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Re: Quad HIFI Ideas?

Postby Arpangel » Fri Jun 07, 2019 10:59 am

ef37a wrote:
Arpangel wrote:
ef37a wrote:"cheap generic IC's are used a lot these days."

You are in for a bad time then Arpangel because just about everything you have ever heard, hear now and ever likely to hear was amplified, buffered or processed through many dozens of those "cheap generic ICs" you seem to despise.

The NE5532 was/is the mainstay of the audio electronics industry. The distortion is so low that even the best analysers struggle to resolve it above noise. Their noise level is extremely low (and the LM4562 even better but more expensive) to the point that you will find it hard source a program nearly as good!

The most common FET input chip, the TL072 is not as good if you want to drive low loads (under 5k say) but is otherwise a perfectly acceptable device. Has a higher slew rate than the NEs but that is just tweaky bllx and matters not for audio applications.

The only area where discrete components are better is for noise critical applications like mic pre amps and (very posh!) summing amplifiers but that is just a noise issue, has nothing to do with subjective sound quality and if you can run to a decent input transformer the NE5534 will beat a transistor for noise. (RED pre amp!)

If a 20dB discrete amplifier sounds differently from a 5532 set for 20dB the discrete amp is faulty!

Dave.

Interesting, I have an old Trio KA1500, I can't see any IC's in it at all. It's all, by the looks of it, discreet components and hand wired. Sounds very good though, and it was a budget amp at the time.
There was a time in the 80's lots of BADA shops, all had the same dogged philosophy, and I thought a lot of that Naim, Linn, Rotel stuff sounded pretty bad TBQH. It was sort of all down hill a bit from then.

The Trio would probably have "sounded" even better for the use of a couple of NEs! (I put sounded in " " because I doubt anyone could hear the difference in practice)
It is for example very difficult to make a really linear Baxandall tone control using the low loop gain of discrete transistors. Accurate RIAA equalisation and adequate headroom for phono preamps is also better done with op amps, the NE5534 for instance is hard to beat for noise. The only area where discretes score is the use of parallel devices in MC front ends.

Naim? Linn sound bad? Depends who you ask. These products were reckoned to be the dogs whatsits back in the day.

Dave.

Thanks, my Trio is fairly noisy, I must admit, but, Noise hasn't ever been an issue for me, we all have different priorities, but I'd rather have a bit of noise and a good tonal balance than a completely quiet clinical sound.
That's the thing, Linn/Naim had great PR, their reputation was phenomenal, and they were very clever about dealer networking, demo evenings, and how they presented their stuff, but it just wasn't my cup of tea, it was all about the last ounce of detail at the expense of everything else, I much prefer a richer, slightly coloured sound, to the colder and more clinical sound of some of that 80's stuff.
And now prices for those things are quite frankly, stupid, £18,000 for a Linn Sondeck? No record deck is worth that no matter what it's made of or how it's designed.
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