Terrible.dee wrote:The Environment?
So, I guess I'm claiming this one... :headbang:
Terrible.dee wrote:You've found "Interesting ways of doing things" and "Solved an Issue"
Yep - Logic is pretty good at letting you do some things that some power users need, without it getting the way for the people that don't need those things.
Terrible.dee wrote:I maintain to this day that the environment is the very symbol of Logic...
Over-complication for its own sake, taking something simple and adding unnecessary levels of complexity thereby becoming a distraction from the "reason de etre'
Well I couldn't disagree more. I'd say probably 90% or more people never even open the environment window, nor have a reason to do so, so it certainly isn't a "distraction" to most folks - and Logic's development has focused on repackaging up some of the stuff you used it for into "friendlier" and more accessible ways - eg MIDI plugins, or the "External Instrument" software instrument and many more ways - and pushing the environment features away from the casual users who don't want to go there.
The Environment has a reputation for being "over-complicated" but it is no more complicated than connecting MIDI devices together - indeed, that was entirely the paradigm the environment uses. Of course, back in the days when Logic was a MIDI-only sequencer, and all users had a bunch of MIDI gear, the paradigms were more familiar to most - many people these days don't have much of a concept of MIDI, even though they're using it, so it's perhaps less obvious to the youngfolk.
I actually think the biggest barrier to the environment for those folks who shy away for it is that they just have no use for it - and thus they kind of look at it blankly, shrug, and close it again.
Terrible.dee wrote:I'm a firm believer in that tools should only assist, they should never try to become the star of the show, one doesn't open Logic with the idea of "I'm going to do some LOGIC'ING" But that is exactly what things like "The environment" lead to.
I love the fact that I can, should I want to, build extra functionality in my DAW to assist me *more* than it would otherwise do. But I don't have to. it's the same as scripting in Reaper - don't care about it, then ignore it, and it doesn't get in the way. However, for a small subset of power users, it's a godsend that lets them improve their workflow significantly.
In fact, the environment, and it's possibilities, was probably *the* key reason I moved from Notator to Logic 1.x back in the day. Things I couldn't do but wanted to in Notator could now be handled easily.
Terrible.dee wrote:...but to this day, I have NEVER found a practical use for the environment
That's fine. Not everybody needs every tool. I can't say I spend a lot of time in the score editor either, but that doesn't mean I don't think it should be there... And the score editor is certainly complicated, and requires understanding of the principles of notation, and layout, and what makes a good readable score. But again, it's not like the score system is a distraction for the people that don't need it - they just don't open that window. It's the same principle as the Environment.
Terrible.dee wrote:While there, I see stuff....but what I see are things that DO NOT NEED TO BE THAT COMPLICATED
So, firstly, it really isn't complicated. You can demonstrate the principles, and the key concepts, in a couple of minutes. However, people (being as we are) *are* complicated, and often have complicated needs. And in this manner, if the environment has a weakness, it is if anything (imo) *too simple*.
The fact that the tools in the environment are inherently very simple (something to output MIDI messages, something to transform MIDI messages, something to monitor MIDI messages etc - there's only a handful of types of object) means that *if* you need to do something complicated, it can become a bit of a mess to implement. For example, let's say you want to store the value of a note played for some reason - there is no concept of a store, or "variable", so you have to create faders to "hold" that value. This is where stuff gets unintuitive, and over-complex. With some work, some new objects, including getting the MIDI Scripter plugin into the environment, then developing solutions to needs would result in much *simpler* environment setups. But I digress...
Terrible.dee wrote:If someone could justify the existence of the "Environment" I'd LOVE to hear it.
The thing is, if you need it, you know you need it. It's a bit like talking about workflow and automation tools to people who are happy using their Mac with the mouse. I can hardly bear to use a "plain" Mac, it feels slow and constrained and annoying - I use all kinds of enhancements to make my experience better, faster, more efficient, less frustrating. I use LaunchBar, Keyboard Maestro and all kinds of other tools, and they are a necessity to me in a myriad of ways. But talking about how cool these automation tools are to another person doesn't take into account that that person just might not be interested, or need it, or even want to change a known workflow, even if the new workflow would be much better. Some folks are happy enough just to do things the way they know works.
So if you have no use for the environment, there is no point me going on about why it's important for *me*, because those things are clearly not important to you. You'll find the comments unconvincing.
Lastly - because of the fact that since Apple's acquisition of Logic, they have been working to simplify and streamline, and most of their development choices you can understand, even if some of them were a little annoying to long-term power users. And many of those things which were once environment-only solutions can now be done in other ways (the MIDI plugins and MIDI Scripter are some examples, and there are plenty more).
But also times have changed, and gone are the days when Logic for me sat in the middle of a roomful of MIDI gear. Probably 90% of the time now, I'm not even firing up my hardware MIDI interfaces or gear, and Logic is being an audio workstation, a software synth, sampler and so on - and as such, my environment use is much less these days, compared to my Logic 1-5 days.
The Environment is still there. It still underpins Logic, tracks still have Environment objects assigned to them, an Audio Track 1 object is an environment object, and so everyone is using the Environment, even if they have no need to do anything custom or even open up the environment window. But it has been neglected and under-developed, so Apple's treatment of it seems to indicate how they feel about it - it has to stay for project compatibility, removing or changing it would be a significant amount of foundational work on a large legacy codebase, and it's a set of tools that are less relevant to the userbase than ever before. So, it stays, it gets hidden away as much as possible, and we make every effort to not require a typical user to need to go there to do anything they regularly need to do, while still being there for those that *do* have a use for it, or have developed custom solutions in the past that still work for them, and would be painful to lose.
It's old, it's under-developed, it's over-simple, it's paradigm is probably out-dated, and it's not important to most users.
But it's helped me out tremendously over the years, and I love software where you can develop custom solutions for things that would otherwise get in the way of my creativity, should you need to.
If it's not important to you - that's Ok too. :thumbup: