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Recording Help!

All about the tools and techniques involved in capturing sound, in the studio or on location.

Re: Recording Help!

Postby Sam Spoons » Wed Jul 24, 2019 11:15 am

I don't know the purpose of your podcast, beyond that it's a hobby for you all, but I assume you want to become better at it so some attention to voice delivery would be a benefit, get the quietly spoken members of the team to learn to project a little more and experiment with distance from the mics (halving the distance increases the level by 4x relative to preamp noise). If you can get past the tech issues it will become a more enjoyable experience for you all. Good luck.
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Re: Recording Help!

Postby Mike Stranks » Wed Jul 24, 2019 11:42 am

ef37a wrote:
In other words, unless OP has a particularly bad sample, that mixer should be usable with dynamics in a normal room in the daytime/early evening.


But they're not Dave! I've used an 802 for conversational spoken word in a very quiet treated room and needed a front-end preamp to avoid hiss-city. And the mixer was connected to a pro-quality digital recorder.

And picking up on Sam's point... unless you have cardioid mics designed for close-working - dynamic or otherwise - then you get proximity effect. For natural-sounding conversational voice you have to back off the mic somewhat. As a radio presenter I habitually worked the mic at about 0.5 - 1.0 inches. I quickly found for more conversational work I had to back-off to achieve a more natural sound. I do agree that some form of voice coaching may be necessary, but people need to be able to concentrate on content and not technique.
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Re: Recording Help!

Postby ef37a » Wed Jul 24, 2019 12:02 pm

Ok Mike, I will give you that if they are not on top of the mic and of feeble voice they need better pre amps!

But! OP had better have a pretty quiet place. As has been said before in this forum, "gain is gain". Does not matter whether you get it from a sensitive capacitor capsule or a Cloudlifter boosted dynamic, external noise will get in and the only way to beat it is to get closer and reduce gain.

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Re: Recording Help!

Postby Kwackman » Wed Jul 24, 2019 12:10 pm

It MIGHT be worth considering just using one omni mic?
6 people round a single table, with the louder voices a bit further away than the quieter voices.
It will sound a bit open, but I suspect having 6 mics all faded up at the same time will sound fairly open too?
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Re: Recording Help!

Postby Sam Spoons » Wed Jul 24, 2019 12:14 pm

My small experience of amateur talking heads is that they expect to be heard with the mic on a table stand at arms length * in front of them so reducing that distance to 12" or even 6" will have considerable benefits while still minimising the problems of proximity effect. As has been said, the closer the better from a signal to noise (from whatever source) POV.

* the biggest involved 21 boxers, promoters and pundits at a press conference, we did have to resort to all manner of vocal mics simply to make up the numbers, IIRC Beta 57/58s were the most effective. Horrible gigs, I'm very glad to be out of all that now.
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Re: Recording Help!

Postby The Elf » Wed Jul 24, 2019 12:18 pm

Kwackman wrote:It MIGHT be worth considering just using one omni mic?
6 people round a single table, with the louder voices a bit further away than the quieter voices.
+1 Maybe one for the the louder speakers and one for the quieter ones - choose your end of the table!
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Re: Recording Help!

Postby ef37a » Wed Jul 24, 2019 1:14 pm

" Horrible gigs, I'm very glad to be out of all that now."

Heh! We set out 4 mics in banquet stands for the principles at an AGM.

MD was fine seated (we were told they all would sit) but then the ******treasurer STOOD UP and he was eight feet tall! To add injury to it he had the voice of a four foot two inch girl.

Sometimes yer just can't win.

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Re: Recording Help!

Postby Sam Spoons » Wed Jul 24, 2019 1:28 pm

And why to the quiet speakers sit back in their chair and the loud one insist in pulling the mic closer :madas: :madas: :madas:
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Re: Recording Help!

Postby G18ALG » Wed Jul 24, 2019 3:35 pm

So I’ve been in touch with the shop that sold me the mixer to say “that thing you sold me doesn’t have enough power for all six mics like you said it would” and they have replied with “Given your description it sounds to me like you have diagnosed this correctly. To ensure that there is enough power to go around we usually recommend using a USB audio interface, something like the 18i20 that has a power supply (as opposed to bus power).”

If only they’d have told me that before!!

P.s. For those that have asked, it is a hobby podcast (six friends chewing the fat on random topics every week) but the lack of sound quality really lets it down at the moment. Feel free to check it out on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, YouTube etc. It’s called ‘Don’t Touch The Bugles’. There’s quite a few F Bombs though so be warned!
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Re: Recording Help!

Postby ConcertinaChap » Wed Jul 24, 2019 3:57 pm

Perhaps you could replace just a couple of mics with dynamics and give those to the loudmouths :)

That might leave enough power for the condensers.

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Re: Recording Help!

Postby G18ALG » Wed Jul 24, 2019 4:14 pm

ConcertinaChap wrote:Perhaps you could replace just a couple of mics with dynamics and give those to the loudmouths :)

That might leave enough power for the condensers.

CC

That’s a cost efficient and favourable idea but would the sound be hugely different though?
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Re: Recording Help!

Postby Sam Spoons » Wed Jul 24, 2019 6:06 pm

G18ALG wrote:So I’ve been in touch with the shop that sold me the mixer to say “that thing you sold me doesn’t have enough power for all six mics like you said it would” and they have replied with “Given your description it sounds to me like you have diagnosed this correctly. To ensure that there is enough power to go around we usually recommend using a USB audio interface, something like the 18i20 that has a power supply (as opposed to bus power).”

If only they’d have told me that before!!

Your Berry mixer has mains power not bus power :roll: I suspect some wool pulling is going on.
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Re: Recording Help!

Postby ef37a » Thu Jul 25, 2019 9:27 am

Sam Spoons wrote:
G18ALG wrote:So I’ve been in touch with the shop that sold me the mixer to say “that thing you sold me doesn’t have enough power for all six mics like you said it would” and they have replied with “Given your description it sounds to me like you have diagnosed this correctly. To ensure that there is enough power to go around we usually recommend using a USB audio interface, something like the 18i20 that has a power supply (as opposed to bus power).”

If only they’d have told me that before!!

Your Berry mixer has mains power not bus power :roll: I suspect some wool pulling is going on.

Agreed and note, the 18i20 is specce'd with only 50dB of gain for the mic pre amps and lack the versatility of a mixer's gain trim, channel level control, EQ and pan. The F'rite's pre amps MIGHT be a bit quieter than the Behrry's but I wouldn't bet on it!

If phantom power capability is still being thought of as an issue I still doubt that.

Hmm, just seen that is written as "gain range" 50dB so the AI could have up to 60dB? Still reckon it will be about the same as the mixer.

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Re: Recording Help!

Postby John Willett » Thu Jul 25, 2019 9:34 am

A single boundary mic. in the middle of the table may work perfectly :thumbup:

If you don't have a boundary mic., then lay an omni on its side held down with blu-tack (or teh like). :thumbup:
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Re: Recording Help!

Postby Mike Stranks » Thu Jul 25, 2019 9:54 am

John Willett wrote:A single boundary mic. in the middle of the table may work perfectly :thumbup:

If you don't have a boundary mic., then lay an omni on its side held down with blu-tack (or teh like). :thumbup:

Now there's a thought if the room is reasonably good.... :thumbup:

... and I'd then use something like the excellent Broadcast plug-in http://www.vst4free.com/free_vst.php?id=548 to help deal with variable levels and generally tighten things up. (And it can be used as a plug-in in Audacity... done it.) And it's free!
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