You are here

Separating / Distinguishing Snare / handclaps...

All about the tools and techniques involved in capturing sound, in the studio or on location.

Separating / Distinguishing Snare / handclaps...

Postby The Bunk » Tue Jul 30, 2019 3:35 pm

I may or may not have an issue here but just wanted to see if I'm going things about the right way. So basically, simple enough...I have a project on which I have added handclaps towards the end of the song. I'm using Reaper and EZDrummer with snare (and of course kick, hats etc) tracks separated. Handclaps are on two tracks, one mono, one stereo, recorded live through an SM58. The mono track is very slightly panned off-centre.
I've added a little reverb and delay to one of the handclap tracks but no EQ treatment. It sounds OK to me but I just wondered if there are any recognised techniques for doing this so they sit well together in the mix and don't clash excessively?
User avatar
The Bunk
Frequent Poster
Posts: 1048
Joined: Sat Dec 29, 2007 1:00 am
Location: SW London
2 answers; 799 questions and about 58 "Mornington Crescent" posts.

Re: Separating / Distinguishing Snare / handclaps...

Postby Martin Walker » Tue Jul 30, 2019 3:39 pm

Zukan (Eddie Bazil) is our in-house expert on matters such as these, especially since over the years he's produced many sound libraries that include both snares and handclaps.

I'm sure he'll pop in shortly with some tip-top advice.


Martin
User avatar
Martin Walker
Moderator
Posts: 14036
Joined: Wed Jan 13, 2010 9:44 am
Location: Cornwall, UK

Re: Separating / Distinguishing Snare / handclaps...

Postby Mixedup » Tue Jul 30, 2019 4:04 pm

Sounds like you're gong for realistic clap sounds rather than electro... in which case, all I'd say is layer them, and try not to close mic them — get some ambience on the recording (or at least fake it after the fact). They can sound a bit thin on their own, so also try layering with slightly deeper, meatier sounds... recording thigh slaps is the classic choice!
User avatar
Mixedup
Jedi Poster
Posts: 4336
Joined: Wed Sep 03, 2003 12:00 am
Location: Cambridgeshire, UK

Re: Separating / Distinguishing Snare / handclaps...

Postby The Bunk » Tue Jul 30, 2019 4:34 pm

Hmm, good couple of pointers there already thank you. They were close-miked...obviously that's easily rectified. As for the thigh-slaps - another possibility but I do also remember leaving my thigh black and blue after doing tambourine hits that way :sick: .
User avatar
The Bunk
Frequent Poster
Posts: 1048
Joined: Sat Dec 29, 2007 1:00 am
Location: SW London
2 answers; 799 questions and about 58 "Mornington Crescent" posts.

Re: Separating / Distinguishing Snare / handclaps...

Postby Mixedup » Tue Jul 30, 2019 4:47 pm

The Bunk wrote:I do also remember leaving my thigh black and blue.

So find someone else's thigh to slap :lol:
User avatar
Mixedup
Jedi Poster
Posts: 4336
Joined: Wed Sep 03, 2003 12:00 am
Location: Cambridgeshire, UK

Re: Separating / Distinguishing Snare / handclaps...

Postby Jack Ruston » Tue Jul 30, 2019 5:15 pm

If needs be, delay them, randomly, behind the snare. So the snare is in time, but the claps are sometimes a bit late. It helps to unmask them, and to lengthen the snare, but it can also be a nice feel, natural.
Jack Ruston
Frequent Poster (Level2)
Posts: 3759
Joined: Wed Dec 21, 2005 1:00 am

Re: Separating / Distinguishing Snare / handclaps...

Postby The Elf » Wed Jul 31, 2019 1:29 pm

A healthy dose of distortion might help too.
User avatar
The Elf
Jedi Poster
Posts: 12460
Joined: Tue Aug 14, 2001 12:00 am
Location: Sheffield, UK
An Eagle for an Emperor, A Kestrel for a Knave.

Re: Separating / Distinguishing Snare / handclaps...

Postby Zukan » Wed Jul 31, 2019 3:40 pm

Martin, thanks for the heads up buddy.

I do this kind of thing all day long with Hip Hop and some styles of EDM. I tend to use a mono layer (clap, snare or whatever you are layering with) for solidifying the mid/center information and work the layered claps using the sides of M/S. This allows me to blend one layer towards the mid and the other layers towards the sides. You could also send all the layers to one group or aux and use M/S there. I like using auxes for layering as I have control over the send which in effect means I am working in parallel but with only one sound as opposed to duplicating the same file and working on the duplicate and then trying to balance the two. This does limit you in that whatever process you apply to the sound gets duplicated at the aux. But for simple
2 sound layering tasks it is very effective.

Another cool trick is to work the clap effects on the sides. I use MSED on an aux channel with say a reverb stuck in there and drop the mid out and work the sides of the verb. This gives a much more solid and consistent sound and because the verb is only on the sides you achieve a sense of space without having to mush the center with verb. I've been doing this with a mix Eddy and I are working on. We ran the pads in M/S using verbs also in M/S with only the sides activated. As pads can mush a mix quite quickly this separation of the sides technique attenuates the mid but boosts the side giving a sense of space without the mid interfering with similar frequency sounds. Works even better on reverbs.

Also, try frequency conscious side-chaining. I often duck one frequency range so as to create space for a similar frequency range when working with two similar sounds. Works really well.

There are other techniques for working with layers but it would eat up a ton of forum real estate explaining them. But try the above and see if they work for you.
User avatar
Zukan
Moderator
Posts: 7870
Joined: Fri Sep 12, 2003 12:00 am

Re: Separating / Distinguishing Snare / handclaps...

Postby Martin Walker » Wed Jul 31, 2019 5:30 pm

Wow - now that's what I call a reply. Loads to try there in addition to all the other helpful suggestions above ;)


Martin
User avatar
Martin Walker
Moderator
Posts: 14036
Joined: Wed Jan 13, 2010 9:44 am
Location: Cornwall, UK

Re: Separating / Distinguishing Snare / handclaps...

Postby The Bunk » Wed Jul 31, 2019 5:51 pm

Yep, agreed Martin and thanks to all and especially to Zuke for the replies. Plenty to get my teeth into there! Thanks as ever guys :clap: !
User avatar
The Bunk
Frequent Poster
Posts: 1048
Joined: Sat Dec 29, 2007 1:00 am
Location: SW London
2 answers; 799 questions and about 58 "Mornington Crescent" posts.

Re: Separating / Distinguishing Snare / handclaps...

Postby Wonks » Wed Jul 31, 2019 6:13 pm

So, you record the claps at the sides of the room and the snare in the middle. Got it. ;)
User avatar
Wonks
Jedi Poster
Posts: 8928
Joined: Thu May 29, 2003 12:00 am
Location: Reading, UK
Correcting mistakes on the internet since 1853

Re: Separating / Distinguishing Snare / handclaps...

Postby Kwackman » Wed Jul 31, 2019 6:15 pm

The Bunk wrote:Yep, agreed Martin and thanks to all and especially to Zuke for the replies. Plenty to get my teeth into there! Thanks as ever guys :clap: !

I'm sure you already know, but Zukan does do great tutorials/ebooks on this sort of thing.
Click on the links in his signature.
User avatar
Kwackman
Frequent Poster
Posts: 1345
Joined: Thu Nov 07, 2002 1:00 am
Location: Belfast
Cubase, guitars.

Re: Separating / Distinguishing Snare / handclaps...

Postby The Bunk » Wed Jul 31, 2019 6:38 pm

Wonks wrote:So, you record the claps at the sides of the room and the snare in the middle. Got it. ;)

Indeed. Or I just send the whole thing to Zukan and say "sort it out please fella."
User avatar
The Bunk
Frequent Poster
Posts: 1048
Joined: Sat Dec 29, 2007 1:00 am
Location: SW London
2 answers; 799 questions and about 58 "Mornington Crescent" posts.

Re: Separating / Distinguishing Snare / handclaps...

Postby Zukan » Thu Aug 01, 2019 8:12 am

Hahaha..
User avatar
Zukan
Moderator
Posts: 7870
Joined: Fri Sep 12, 2003 12:00 am

Re: Separating / Distinguishing Snare / handclaps...

Postby Martin Walker » Thu Aug 01, 2019 10:09 am

The Bunk wrote:
Wonks wrote:So, you record the claps at the sides of the room and the snare in the middle. Got it. ;)

Indeed. Or I just send the whole thing to Zukan and say "sort it out please fella."

Not as silly as it might initially sound - I know Eddy (Deegan) has just posted on another thread about some mixes that Zukan is helping him with - personal tuition is another one of Zuke's fortes.

Whenever he's tweaked a mix of mine the results have been credited on the album - he's that good ;)


Martin
User avatar
Martin Walker
Moderator
Posts: 14036
Joined: Wed Jan 13, 2010 9:44 am
Location: Cornwall, UK

Re: Separating / Distinguishing Snare / handclaps...

Postby Wonks » Thu Aug 01, 2019 10:15 am

Martin Walker wrote:Whenever he's tweaked a mix of mine the results have been credited on the album - he's that good ;)

Walker's Gangsta Rap album is superb.
User avatar
Wonks
Jedi Poster
Posts: 8928
Joined: Thu May 29, 2003 12:00 am
Location: Reading, UK
Correcting mistakes on the internet since 1853

Re: Separating / Distinguishing Snare / handclaps...

Postby Zukan » Thu Aug 01, 2019 12:56 pm

Wonks wrote:
Martin Walker wrote:Whenever he's tweaked a mix of mine the results have been credited on the album - he's that good ;)

Walker's Gangsta Rap album is superb.


You should see the video...
User avatar
Zukan
Moderator
Posts: 7870
Joined: Fri Sep 12, 2003 12:00 am

Re: Separating / Distinguishing Snare / handclaps...

Postby Dave B » Thu Aug 01, 2019 1:45 pm

I prefer MW's hardcore take on that classic Stevie Wonder track : Been spending most our lives living in a woodland paradise ...
User avatar
Dave B
Jedi Poster
Posts: 5227
Joined: Thu Apr 03, 2003 12:00 am
Location: Maidenhead
Veni, Vidi, Aesculi (I came, I saw, I conkered)

Re: Separating / Distinguishing Snare / handclaps...

Postby Wonks » Thu Aug 01, 2019 1:57 pm

Zukan wrote:
Wonks wrote:
Martin Walker wrote:Whenever he's tweaked a mix of mine the results have been credited on the album - he's that good ;)

Walker's Gangsta Rap album is superb.


You should see the video...


I did. Couldn't sleep for several days afterwards.
User avatar
Wonks
Jedi Poster
Posts: 8928
Joined: Thu May 29, 2003 12:00 am
Location: Reading, UK
Correcting mistakes on the internet since 1853

Re: Separating / Distinguishing Snare / handclaps...

Postby Zukan » Thu Aug 01, 2019 2:24 pm

I understand.
User avatar
Zukan
Moderator
Posts: 7870
Joined: Fri Sep 12, 2003 12:00 am

Next

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: GilesAnt, MarkOne, Sam Spoons