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Home recording piano and flute advice please!

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Re: Home recording piano and flute advice please!

PostPosted: Thu Sep 26, 2019 3:56 pm
by Exalted Wombat
I don't think it's mechanically-transmitted noise from the piano mechanism, just straightforward acoustic sound.

I'm not hearing much stereo image. What stereo information there IS seems rather diffuse, possibly mostly from artificial reverbration. Did you have a stereo pair in front of the whole thing?

Re: Home recording piano and flute advice please!

PostPosted: Fri Sep 27, 2019 8:01 pm
by Siejen
Yes, ORTF pair. I’ve not used the spots yet as they actually didn’t add much.
The recording space was quite small, the mic pair was behind the flautist who was facing the pianist, so there’s not much image to be had. I can put up some untreated sounds if you would listen. I’d appreciate the learning if I’ve destroyed something with my processing.

Re: Home recording piano and flute advice please!

PostPosted: Fri Sep 27, 2019 9:48 pm
by Tim Gillett
Yes the "pedal thump" may not be transmitted mechanically to the mics but through the air. Even so it's not part of the performance. Next time I'd explore temporarily adding a suitable piece of rubber/felt/closed cell foam to the offending spot in the piano mech, probably under the sustain pedal where it bottoms out on the wooden frame. These sorts of noises tend to develop slowly over time and it's easy for the musos to not notice it until a third party does.

Re: Home recording piano and flute advice please!

PostPosted: Sun Sep 29, 2019 1:11 pm
by Siejen
I've given them a little polish, and uploaded the Bach as well.
@EW; there is one here that is only the comp (onlycomp Schubert2) without processing. Compared to the processed, I can't hear much loss of image, but if you could comment, I'd really appreciate it :)
https://soundcloud.com/iain-suffield
Thanks,
Iain

Re: Home recording piano and flute advice please!

PostPosted: Sun Sep 29, 2019 2:53 pm
by Tim Gillett
Thanks Iain. I enjoyed listening to a couple of the Bach tracks. The high frequency ticking noises coming from the flute were prominent at times. You might try a Declicker tool on this, experimenting with the click sensitivity. I wouldn't attempt removal of all these noises but at least many of them could probably be removed or at least their annoyance value reduced without compromising the musical sounds.

Tim

Re: Home recording piano and flute advice please!

PostPosted: Sun Sep 29, 2019 4:58 pm
by Siejen
Hi Tim, thanks for commenting. I’ll investigate a de-clicker. I’m sure waves will have a sale on soon :wtf: Unless any recommendations???
The flute has been serviced now with fresh pads, so solo pieces should be click free when recording.

If they’re so different, we may even get the second days piano recording everyone expected!!

Re: Home recording piano and flute advice please!

PostPosted: Sun Sep 29, 2019 5:35 pm
by Ariosto
I've listened to a little of Bach 1 & 2

Good balance between flute and piano.

My problem is that there is a lot of mush coming from the piano and I'm not sure if this is the instrument. Perhaps it would have been better to really close mic the piano* in stereo and have a mono mic for the flute with distance between players so that there was more separation in the sound. Then the flute (also fairly close miked) could be balanced against the piano in post production.

* Perhaps experimenting with mics inside the lid and over the harp, or even just over the hammers. Good piano sound comes from the initial hammer contact with the strings which "should" continue to ring without mush or distortion, and without the sustain pedal introducing nasty sounds. Of course this relies on a piano being in top condition and just having been tuned very well. Unfortunately the piano is an instrument that can sound terrible (and even worse on recordings) if it is not set up extremely well. This may all be out of your control of course. When I've been involved in recordings with violin and piano the instrument is freshly tuned and also retuned during the sessions if necessary.

Re: Home recording piano and flute advice please!

PostPosted: Sun Sep 29, 2019 6:46 pm
by Exalted Wombat
So you had a stereo pair up, but it was looking at the back of the flautist?

I wouldn't fiddle with this one any more. The finger isn't pointing at you - the pianist has heard that his instrument requires a tuner/technician's attention and the flutist has heard that his instrument also needs an overhaul. Schedule another session after that's been taken care of. Decide where the audience is sitting, put the stereo pair there and get them to play in that direction!

Re: Home recording piano and flute advice please!

PostPosted: Sun Sep 29, 2019 8:26 pm
by Tim Gillett
Just to clarify, my suggestion to declick related to the existing recordings as about all that could be done to improve them. For any future recordings in the same room, I'd mic each instrument separately and closer as Ariosto mentions. We can always add good reverb later but removing bad location coloration is difficult if not impossible.

Re: Home recording piano and flute advice please!

PostPosted: Thu Oct 03, 2019 12:52 am
by Exalted Wombat
Siejen wrote:I've given them a little polish, and uploaded the Bach as well.
@EW; there is one here that is only the comp (onlycomp Schubert2) without processing. Compared to the processed, I can't hear much loss of image, but if you could comment, I'd really appreciate it :)
https://soundcloud.com/iain-suffield
Thanks,
Iain


I like it a lot better without all that reverb!

Might you have neglected Rule #1 of applying any effect? Dial it up until it sounds REALLY lush. Then dial it back by at least 50% :-)

Re: Home recording piano and flute advice please!

PostPosted: Wed Oct 30, 2019 1:19 pm
by Exalted Wombat
The great thing about a thread like this is that it prompts us to seek out performances like:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1EmCrNJ3bXY

Listen to 2'00" if you think repeat echo is just a modern recording technique. Schubert wrote it in the piano part!

The only mics I can see are the slung pair.

Re: Home recording piano and flute advice please!

PostPosted: Sat Nov 09, 2019 6:12 pm
by Siejen
I'd never considered it like that...
The performance is spot on on the link, but I'm not sure about the recording quality itself (not <obviously> that I have any evidence of doing any better!!) but thanks for the link as it gives helps me hone in on what a 'good' performance sounds like.

Anyway, we're going for the flute only recordings at the end of the month, so I'm hoping the key click will be sorted as the flute has been serviced. Then I'm temped to try and do the piano pieces again, but we'll see how that goes :)

Test recordings suggest mono and a distance away from the flute to let the sound develop a little. And no great washes of reverb this time :)

Thanks all, Iain