You are here

How to split guitar signal?

All about the tools and techniques involved in capturing sound, in the studio or on location.

Re: How to split guitar signal?

Postby ef37a » Tue Sep 24, 2019 5:35 am

You don't of course HAVE to mix the signals 50-50. You might find one sounds much better than the other or you need just a sniff of one to sweeten the deal?

Has anyone mentioned the Aug 07 guitar recording "bible" yet?

https://www.soundonsound.com/techniques/guitar-amp-recording

Dave.
ef37a
Jedi Poster
Posts: 10636
Joined: Mon May 29, 2006 12:00 am
Location: northampton uk

Re: How to split guitar signal?

Postby gingertimmins » Tue Sep 24, 2019 6:46 am

James Perrett wrote:One other suggestion - try flipping the polarity on one of the channels. Depending upon your signal chain, you may find that you prefer the sound with the polarity flipped.
Thanks James, I’ve just discovered this with the drums that I’ve recorded. I checked for phase when setting up but later found that flipping one overhead (Glyn Johns) tightened the whole sound up.
This recording journey is so exciting for me. I’m learning so much and I’m lucky to have this place to come and ask my silly questions!
gingertimmins
Regular
Posts: 467
Joined: Wed Dec 05, 2007 1:00 am

Re: How to split guitar signal?

Postby gingertimmins » Tue Sep 24, 2019 6:46 am

ef37a wrote:You don't of course HAVE to mix the signals 50-50. You might find one sounds much better than the other or you need just a sniff of one to sweeten the deal?

Has anyone mentioned the Aug 07 guitar recording "bible" yet?

https://www.soundonsound.com/techniques/guitar-amp-recording

Dave.
Nope but that sounds like something I need in my life!
gingertimmins
Regular
Posts: 467
Joined: Wed Dec 05, 2007 1:00 am

Re: How to split guitar signal?

Postby gingertimmins » Tue Sep 24, 2019 6:50 am

gingertimmins wrote:
ef37a wrote:You don't of course HAVE to mix the signals 50-50. You might find one sounds much better than the other or you need just a sniff of one to sweeten the deal?

Has anyone mentioned the Aug 07 guitar recording "bible" yet?

Dave.
Nope but that sounds like something I need in my life!

Edited to add that I’m guessing you mean tho?
https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.soun ... ding%3famp

Nice, that’s today’s reading sorted.
gingertimmins
Regular
Posts: 467
Joined: Wed Dec 05, 2007 1:00 am

Re: How to split guitar signal?

Postby ef37a » Tue Sep 24, 2019 7:14 am

gingertimmins wrote:
gingertimmins wrote:
ef37a wrote:You don't of course HAVE to mix the signals 50-50. You might find one sounds much better than the other or you need just a sniff of one to sweeten the deal?

Has anyone mentioned the Aug 07 guitar recording "bible" yet?

Dave.
Nope but that sounds like something I need in my life!

Edited to add that I’m guessing you mean tho?
https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.soun ... ding%3famp

Nice, that’s today’s reading sorted.

The very chap.
ef37a
Jedi Poster
Posts: 10636
Joined: Mon May 29, 2006 12:00 am
Location: northampton uk

Re: How to split guitar signal?

Postby The Elf » Tue Sep 24, 2019 8:17 am

gingertimmins wrote:I’ve just discovered this with the drums that I’ve recorded. I checked for phase when setting up but later found that flipping one overhead (Glyn Johns) tightened the whole sound up.
That's often the case. Think in terms of how the skins are moving in relation to each mic.
User avatar
The Elf
Jedi Poster
Posts: 12723
Joined: Tue Aug 14, 2001 12:00 am
Location: Sheffield, UK
An Eagle for an Emperor, A Kestrel for a Knave.

Re: How to split guitar signal?

Postby gingertimmins » Tue Sep 24, 2019 9:29 am

The Elf wrote:
gingertimmins wrote:I’ve just discovered this with the drums that I’ve recorded. I checked for phase when setting up but later found that flipping one overhead (Glyn Johns) tightened the whole sound up.
That's often the case. Think in terms of how the skins are moving in relation to each mic.

Thanks elf, so my having to flip polarity isn’t necessarily because I messed up with the placement but rather that it’s just the nature of the beast? Or a combination of both?
gingertimmins
Regular
Posts: 467
Joined: Wed Dec 05, 2007 1:00 am

Re: How to split guitar signal?

Postby Hugh Robjohns » Tue Sep 24, 2019 9:52 am

gingertimmins wrote:...so my having to flip polarity isn’t necessarily because I messed up with the placement but rather that it’s just the nature of the beast? Or a combination of both?

Nature of the beast...

Of course, it could be down to a mic cable wired up incorrectly, or a vintage mic that is wired internally such that a positive air pressure generates a positive voltage on XLR pin 3 instead of the modern standard of pin 2.

But more likely is that it's a combination of the distances between drums and mics, and the pitches of the drums.

It's all about wavelengths... The GJ technique sets the 'overheads' at the same distance from the snare, so the sound waves radiating from the snare should reach both mics in phase. Flipping the polarity of one 'overhead' should therefore result in a significant reduction in the lower frequencies of the snare sound. If it doesn't, you have a cable problem or a funny mic (or a polarity button active in the mic preamp)!

The distances between each tom and the two mics will, however, vary greatly, and so it's quite possible that the radiating sound wave from one (or more) of the toms will arrive at one mic as a compression wave and the other as a rarefaction at different frequencies, and thus some phase cancellation could occur, changing the overall tonal character of the drum kit. Flipping the polarity of one of the mics will change that character in a way that you might prefer... (particularly if you are supplementing the snare and kick drum content with separate close mics).

The alternative would be to move the mics around a bit to alter the relative distances between drums and mics and change the combined sound that way instead of hitting the polarity button (which offers pretty crude options in comparison).

H
User avatar
Hugh Robjohns
Moderator
Posts: 24561
Joined: Fri Jul 25, 2003 12:00 am
Location: Worcestershire, UK
Technical Editor, Sound On Sound

Re: How to split guitar signal?

Postby The Elf » Tue Sep 24, 2019 10:12 am

I will often time-align overheads (and other mic's) to the snare. Doing this I will typically see the initial transient of the snare dipping into negative. Compare this with, say, bleed into the kick mic and the same transient may be going positive.

Multi-miked drum kits are always a compromise, but by starting with over-mic's flipped and under-mic's un-flipped it gives me a starting point.
User avatar
The Elf
Jedi Poster
Posts: 12723
Joined: Tue Aug 14, 2001 12:00 am
Location: Sheffield, UK
An Eagle for an Emperor, A Kestrel for a Knave.

Re: How to split guitar signal?

Postby gingertimmins » Tue Sep 24, 2019 8:26 pm

Thanks again for the detailed help! I never intended this thread turn into a drum phase thread but I appreciate your time answering my questions.
Next set of questions will no doubt be bass and guitar related!
gingertimmins
Regular
Posts: 467
Joined: Wed Dec 05, 2007 1:00 am

Previous

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users