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PC Upgrade-SSD-Mobo etc.

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Re: PC Upgrade-SSD-Mobo etc.

Postby n o i s e f l e ur » Tue Nov 12, 2019 12:19 am

edit:

Can't really comment one way or the other about that motherboard. It might be fine, it might be completely unsuitable.

The whole point to getting a board Scan use is they've already done most of the hard work validating it for use in a DAW.
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Re: PC Upgrade-SSD-Mobo etc.

Postby Agharta » Tue Nov 12, 2019 12:45 am

I have a 256GB PCIe Boot Drive and a SATA SSD for data.
I find that easily enough for a boot drive and the O/S and apps are what tend to push the drive in terms of latency if not bandwidth.
Be interesting to read a review that looks closely at the impact of PCIe SSDs for DAW usage and particularly with Kontakt and sample library loading.

You tend to pay a premium for Samsung SSDs which I'm not sure is warranted.
If 1TB gives you enough headroom then go for it as adding another SSD isn't difficult.

Good luck with the build. :thumbup:
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Re: PC Upgrade-SSD-Mobo etc.

Postby hardminder » Tue Nov 12, 2019 1:17 am

''Be interesting to read a review that looks closely at the impact of PCIe SSDs for DAW usage and particularly with Kontakt and sample library loading.''

Some interesting stuff on the subject here, scroll through it a bit :

https://discuss.cakewalk.com/index.php? ... their-daw/

''Can't really comment one way or the other about that motherboard. It might be fine, it might be completely unsuitable.

The whole point to getting a board Scan use is they've already done most of the hard work validating it for use in a DAW.''

I'll look deeper into it.
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Re: PC Upgrade-SSD-Mobo etc.

Postby Agharta » Tue Nov 12, 2019 1:30 am

hardminder wrote:''Be interesting to read a review that looks closely at the impact of PCIe SSDs for DAW usage and particularly with Kontakt and sample library loading.''

Some interesting stuff on the subject here, scroll through it a bit :

https://discuss.cakewalk.com/index.php? ... their-daw/

His boot drive is an Intel Optane drive which has significantly lower latency and higher Q1 throughput than the NAND based SSDs that us mortals use and are much more expensive.
His Sample drive is a regular SSD though.
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Re: PC Upgrade-SSD-Mobo etc.

Postby n o i s e f l e ur » Tue Nov 12, 2019 1:46 am

Yeah, that's why I said the NVMe drive would be fine for OS / apps and data / libs - the latency and queue depth / concurrency would handle both with ease . . . but that was before the OP told us 1TB wasn't sufficient for the sample libs.

It would be interesting to see benchmarks based on sample loads alright. My intuition is it really wouldn't matter too much outside of auditioning different presets (kits, what have you) since we seem to have moved away from streaming from disc?

Just saw the new posts before I posted this so . . . yep, Optane, super stuff for latency and throughput, but hella expensive. I expect the price to drop considerably over 2020 - but that goes for NAND too. Can't wait!

It's definitely a sound suggestion to reverse the capacity of the NVMe (M2) and the SATA - though I think it's probably wise to stick with the Samsung. They might command a premium, but it's justified by their performance - they also manufacture the whole stack, which few other vendors do. As for reliability . . . we simply don't have access to that information, and those that do - aren't gonna be telling.

Another suggestion to manage the budget would be to go for more vanilla RAM, there's really no need to pay for bling gamer stuff. So-called "heatspreaders" . . . pfffft!

hardminder wrote:
I'll look deeper into it.

If you can compare onboard stuff like NIC, Wi-Fi chip etc and they're identical - might be okay. It's your money though - the risk is yours to take.
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Re: PC Upgrade-SSD-Mobo etc.

Postby hardminder » Tue Nov 12, 2019 2:11 am

"Another suggestion to manage the budget would be to go for more vanilla RAM, there's really no need to pay for bling gamer stuff. So-called "heatspreaders" . . . pfffft!''

The ram I chose is almost the cheapest I can find on Amazon, 167$ CAD for 32gb

I found cheaper at 148$ but it is really the cheapest of the cheapest. You wouldn't care to use that?
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Re: PC Upgrade-SSD-Mobo etc.

Postby n o i s e f l e ur » Tue Nov 12, 2019 2:46 am

If it's the best deal on offer, that's cool - it's usually the opposite case, where stuff with bling costs more.

I'm generally inclined to stick to brands like Samsung / Crucial (Intel / Micron) / Corsair but at least Patriot are a fairly well-know brand in their own right.

amazon.ca seems weird for pricing, I don't know if that's because the Canadian $ amounts are just unintuitive for me as I'm more used to $US / £GB / €Euro or . . . no, pricing just seems weird! Must be import-related or something.

And defintely don't be tempted by Optane lol!
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Re: PC Upgrade-SSD-Mobo etc.

Postby Mike McLoone » Tue Nov 12, 2019 12:11 pm

Some great input on this thread. I'm going to throw some petrol on the decision making fire however, as this was an issue which affected my mainboard choice. And it is, my existing ATX power supply didn't have a 4-pin ATX power connector. Now, certainly adapters are available to try and squeeze this from a 12V molex drive power connector, but I was weary with this approach. There are mainboards available which simply do not need the 4-pin ATX power, and I went with one of those (ASRock X570 Pro4).

The spec of the Asus Prime x570-p shows:
1 x 8-pin ATX 12V Power connector(s)
1 x 4-pin ATX 12V Power connector(s)

Which means, as can be seen on the photos on the Asus site, an extra 4-pin ATX connection is required (just left of the 8-pin connector on the board). This is not to be confused with the PCIe 12V power cables, which are designed for graphic cards. The polarity is reversed between these, and they are anyhow keyed to prevent such misfortune. However, start messing around with 1-euro adapters from Amazon, and if you end up connecting the 12V output of the PSU directly to ground, it will have been your own fault and no dodgy cable manufacturer is going to be held liable.

Plus, there were enough photos of such adapter cables literally melting and burning out due to inadequate gauge of wire (even if they had the correct polarity), to send me looking for a mainboard which didn't need that at all. And there are several, just check for 4-pin ATX power connector in the specifications, if it has the connector, it needs that output from the PSU.

Does your PSU have a 4-pin ATX output? You'll have to check. If so, it will be a white/black/clear plastic connector with exactly 4-pins. If it's red or marked "PCIe" or "graphics" or "GPU", then no, it is a PCIe power (4 or 6 pins) and not the one you need.

Some pics here:
http://www.smpspowersupply.com/connectors-pinouts.html

Mike
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Re: PC Upgrade-SSD-Mobo etc.

Postby n o i s e f l e ur » Tue Nov 12, 2019 3:18 pm

Great advice Mike - I already informed the OP of the possibility of having to replace the existing PSU but you've illustrated and expanded on the issue very effectively!
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Re: PC Upgrade-SSD-Mobo etc.

Postby hardminder » Tue Nov 12, 2019 6:28 pm

Mike McLoone wrote:Some great input on this thread. I'm going to throw some petrol on the decision making fire however, as this was an issue which affected my mainboard choice. And it is, my existing ATX power supply didn't have a 4-pin ATX power connector. Now, certainly adapters are available to try and squeeze this from a 12V molex drive power connector, but I was weary with this approach. There are mainboards available which simply do not need the 4-pin ATX power, and I went with one of those (ASRock X570 Pro4).

The spec of the Asus Prime x570-p shows:
1 x 8-pin ATX 12V Power connector(s)
1 x 4-pin ATX 12V Power connector(s)

Which means, as can be seen on the photos on the Asus site, an extra 4-pin ATX connection is required (just left of the 8-pin connector on the board). This is not to be confused with the PCIe 12V power cables, which are designed for graphic cards. The polarity is reversed between these, and they are anyhow keyed to prevent such misfortune. However, start messing around with 1-euro adapters from Amazon, and if you end up connecting the 12V output of the PSU directly to ground, it will have been your own fault and no dodgy cable manufacturer is going to be held liable.

Plus, there were enough photos of such adapter cables literally melting and burning out due to inadequate gauge of wire (even if they had the correct polarity), to send me looking for a mainboard which didn't need that at all. And there are several, just check for 4-pin ATX power connector in the specifications, if it has the connector, it needs that output from the PSU.

Does your PSU have a 4-pin ATX output? You'll have to check. If so, it will be a white/black/clear plastic connector with exactly 4-pins. If it's red or marked "PCIe" or "graphics" or "GPU", then no, it is a PCIe power (4 or 6 pins) and not the one you need.

Some pics here:
http://www.smpspowersupply.com/connectors-pinouts.html

Mike

Thank you Mike for that. I read a couple things online about the subject. A lot of people are saying the extra 4 pins are useless.

https://linustechtips.com/main/topic/10 ... tra-4-pin/

https://pcpartpicker.com/forums/topic/2 ... -to-my-psu

https://forums.tomshardware.com/threads ... r.3088447/

Some people say it doesn't affect overclocking, some people say it's just for marketing (which a find a bit easy to say) etc. What's your thought on that?

Thanks a lot
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Re: PC Upgrade-SSD-Mobo etc.

Postby Agharta » Tue Nov 12, 2019 7:26 pm

Almost all of the X570 boards have a fan on the chipset so if noise is an issue for you check the reviews carefully.
Whichever board you buy do update the BIOS as seemingly there have been a lot of updates since release.
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Re: PC Upgrade-SSD-Mobo etc.

Postby hardminder » Wed Nov 13, 2019 12:44 am

Agharta wrote:Almost all of the X570 boards have a fan on the chipset so if noise is an issue for you check the reviews carefully.

Yeah I checked some reviews, the Asus seem to be to most silent (that have a fan) amongst all the X570 boards. Some people are also suggesting that we might be able to turn the fan off in the BIOs sometimes, relatively soon but I won't be counting on that. I'm pretty sensible to noise but my tower is somewhat insolated and I'm sure the new system is going to run smoother than my old rusty hdd and gateway board.

Agharta wrote:Whichever board you buy do update the BIOS as seemingly there have been a lot of updates since release.

I'll be sure to do that, thanks.
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Re: PC Upgrade-SSD-Mobo etc.

Postby hardminder » Wed Nov 13, 2019 1:20 am

Hardminder wrote:
Thank you Mike for that. I read a couple things online

Some people say it doesn't affect overclocking, some people say it's just for marketing (which a find a bit easy to say) etc.

That said, I don't plan on overclocking. I'm not a computer nerd (even though I feel like i've come a bit closer to being one during the last week), I'm a musician/sound designer. People are suggesting that the extra 4 pin connector might only be useful if overclocking and even that seems to be strongly questioned.

Did I get this right?
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Re: PC Upgrade-SSD-Mobo etc.

Postby n o i s e f l e ur » Thu Nov 14, 2019 12:15 am

I think avoiding what have been identified as suitable motherboards for DAW use just to avoid getting a suitable PSU just so you can continue using whatever Gateway specced as the bare minimum to ship in their very poorly regarded machines is probably not the way to go here, but as I already said - it's your money and your risk to take.
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Re: PC Upgrade-SSD-Mobo etc.

Postby hardminder » Sat Nov 16, 2019 5:18 pm

n o i s e f l e ur wrote:I think avoiding what have been identified as suitable motherboards for DAW use just to avoid getting a suitable PSU just so you can continue using whatever Gateway specced as the bare minimum to ship in their very poorly regarded machines is probably not the way to go here, but as I already said - it's your money and your risk to take.

My choice of board wasn't, in any way, based on keeping my Gateway PSU. My choice of motherboard was based on price only and my choice has been confirmed as a suitable board for DAW. And I ended up buying a new PSU anyway.
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Re: PC Upgrade-SSD-Mobo etc.

Postby n o i s e f l e ur » Sun Nov 17, 2019 7:07 pm

Yeah, I could have worded that better - apologies.

Glad to hear you're all sorted now, best of luck with the build. :)
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