You are here

M-S recording mics

All about the tools and techniques involved in capturing sound, in the studio or on location.

M-S recording mics

Postby solaris » Fri Nov 08, 2019 7:15 am

Hi there,

I often record stereo (MS) with two AKG 414 and I was thinking to buy two more mics for this and for general use. I was thinking of a smaller format. I record mostly acoustic instruments. I need something neutral with low noise levels.
I was thinking about two AKG C 391 B and the AKG CK 94 figure of eight capsule.
Does anyone wave experience with these two mics?
Or suggest something else around 900 to 1300 pounds?
Thank you very much.
User avatar
solaris
Regular
Posts: 56
Joined: Mon Oct 27, 2003 1:00 am
Location: Greece

Re: M-S recording mics

Postby Arpangel » Fri Nov 08, 2019 9:25 am

Is £900-£1,300 for one, or two mic's? If it's for one, I'd recommend the Sennheiser MKH series, the 30/40. You may be lucky to pick up a couple of these secondhand, for about £700/800 each. It'd be slightly over budget, but worth it.
User avatar
Arpangel
Frequent Poster (Level2)
Posts: 3044
Joined: Sat Jul 12, 2003 12:00 am

Re: M-S recording mics

Postby Wonks » Fri Nov 08, 2019 9:53 am

Arpangel wrote:Is £900-£1,300 for one, or two mic's?

Given the cost of the AKGs, it must be for both mics.
User avatar
Wonks
Jedi Poster
Posts: 10736
Joined: Thu May 29, 2003 12:00 am
Location: Reading, UK
Correcting mistakes on the internet since 1853

Re: M-S recording mics

Postby Arpangel » Fri Nov 08, 2019 10:03 am

Wonks wrote:
Arpangel wrote:Is £900-£1,300 for one, or two mic's?

Given the cost of the AKGs, it must be for both mics.

If it is for both mic's, he may be able to squeeze in a couple of MKH's, places like BB list, Pink Noise occasionally have second hand ones, there are a few more film and TV suppliers who get them too, there's one in Ealing, and Elstree, a quick google will bring them up.
User avatar
Arpangel
Frequent Poster (Level2)
Posts: 3044
Joined: Sat Jul 12, 2003 12:00 am

Re: M-S recording mics

Postby Hugh Robjohns » Fri Nov 08, 2019 10:09 am

Arpangel wrote:If it is for both mic's, he may be able to squeeze in a couple of MKH's, places like....

You'd be very lucky! Private sales, maybe, but no chance from the usual pro second-hand merchants. Most MKH's I've seen recently have all been north of £850, and many still around £1k. It's not surprising given their quality, longevity, rarity on the S-H market, and new prices.

H
User avatar
Hugh Robjohns
Moderator
Posts: 26364
Joined: Fri Jul 25, 2003 12:00 am
Location: Worcestershire, UK
Technical Editor, Sound On Sound

Re: M-S recording mics

Postby Arpangel » Fri Nov 08, 2019 10:29 am

Hugh Robjohns wrote:
Arpangel wrote:If it is for both mic's, he may be able to squeeze in a couple of MKH's, places like....

You'd be very lucky! Private sales, maybe, but no chance from the usual pro second-hand merchants. Most MKH's I've seen recently have all been north of £850, and many still around £1k. It's not surprising given their quality, longevity, rarity on the S-H market, and new prices.

H

Jeeze! :shock: :shock: I'm shocked, average price for an MKH30 now is £1,600!
There's one on Fleabay at the mo for £995. I think I'm still thinking about a few years back, prices seem to have rocketed. I'm keeping mine then!
User avatar
Arpangel
Frequent Poster (Level2)
Posts: 3044
Joined: Sat Jul 12, 2003 12:00 am

Re: M-S recording mics

Postby John Willett » Fri Nov 08, 2019 10:38 am

Definitely the No.1 MS rig is the Sennheiser MKH 40/30 (or 50/30 or 30/30 or 20/30).

I have a pairs of MKH 20, 30 and 40 which I have had since they were first released in the mid 1980s :thumbup:

If your budget is stretched, then I would look at the Ambient EMESSER for the fig-8. It is a small single-diaphragm fig-8 and is affordable.

You can then pair that with an SDC cardioid like the Gefell M300 or Neumann KM184; or even a Sontronics or Røde if the budget is stretched.
User avatar
John Willett
Jedi Poster
Posts: 6850
Joined: Tue Mar 07, 2000 1:00 am
Location: Oxfordshire UK
John
Sound-Link ProAudio
Circle Sound Services
Sound-Link are UK Distributors for: Microtech Gefell, ME-Geithain, AETA, HUM, Håkan, Meyer Turtle

Re: M-S recording mics

Postby Wonks » Fri Nov 08, 2019 10:43 am

Nobody recommending or have a good word for those AKGs?
User avatar
Wonks
Jedi Poster
Posts: 10736
Joined: Thu May 29, 2003 12:00 am
Location: Reading, UK
Correcting mistakes on the internet since 1853

Re: M-S recording mics

Postby John Willett » Fri Nov 08, 2019 10:44 am

Arpangel wrote:Jeeze! :shock: :shock: I'm shocked, average price for an MKH30 now is £1,600!
There's one on Fleabay at the mo for £995. I think I'm still thinking about a few years back, prices seem to have rocketed. I'm keeping mine then!

The price has come down a bit - they were about £2k each at one time.

But don't forget the Brexit effect - the £/€ exchange rate was 1.50 before the referrendum, it's 1.15 now.

So - a €1,000 item that would cost you £667 in 2016 would be £870 today just because of the collapse of the £ due to the Brexit vote. :madas:

But mine were about £350 each in 1985 :mrgreen:
User avatar
John Willett
Jedi Poster
Posts: 6850
Joined: Tue Mar 07, 2000 1:00 am
Location: Oxfordshire UK
John
Sound-Link ProAudio
Circle Sound Services
Sound-Link are UK Distributors for: Microtech Gefell, ME-Geithain, AETA, HUM, Håkan, Meyer Turtle

Re: M-S recording mics

Postby Arpangel » Fri Nov 08, 2019 10:46 am

John Willett wrote:Definitely the No.1 MS rig is the Sennheiser MKH 40/30 (or 50/30 or 30/30 or 20/30).

I have a pairs of MKH 20, 30 and 40 which I have had since they were first released in the mid 1980s :thumbup:

If your budget is stretched, then I would look at the Ambient EMESSER for the fig-8. It is a small single-diaphragm fig-8 and is affordable.

You can then pair that with an SDC cardioid like the Gefell M300 or Neumann KM184; or even a Sontronics or Røde if the budget is stretched.

John, I can remember selling a few MKH's for Mike before he died, we waited ages for them to sell, they didn't go instantly, and I think I only advertised them for around £700 each, or less, as he wanted to sell them quickly. And it was young college students that bought most of them, doing recording courses, probably using their student loans! That applied to his 4006's, and Schoeps stuff, all these young kids bought them, crazy.
User avatar
Arpangel
Frequent Poster (Level2)
Posts: 3044
Joined: Sat Jul 12, 2003 12:00 am

Re: M-S recording mics

Postby John Willett » Fri Nov 08, 2019 10:46 am

Wonks wrote:Nobody recommending or have a good word for those AKGs?

No - AKG is not really AKG anymore - first it was Harmanized and now it's Samsung.

IMHO, if you want AKG you buy Austrian Audio - that's where all the good AKG people are now. :thumbup:
User avatar
John Willett
Jedi Poster
Posts: 6850
Joined: Tue Mar 07, 2000 1:00 am
Location: Oxfordshire UK
John
Sound-Link ProAudio
Circle Sound Services
Sound-Link are UK Distributors for: Microtech Gefell, ME-Geithain, AETA, HUM, Håkan, Meyer Turtle

Re: M-S recording mics

Postby solaris » Fri Nov 08, 2019 5:18 pm

Thank you all for the replies

Arpangel wrote:If it's for one, I'd recommend the Sennheiser MKH series, the 30/40
John Willett wrote:Definitely the No.1 MS rig is the Sennheiser MKH 40/30 (or 50/30 or 30/30 or 20/30).

Maybe for the future that would be amazing but it is out of my budget for now. It is going to be around 2500 pounds I think. I was thinking 900 -1300 for both mics

Arpangel wrote:If your budget is stretched, then I would look at the Ambient EMESSER for the fig-8. It is a small single-diaphragm fig-8 and is affordable.

This is a really nice idea for audio for video but I don't feel it is appropriate for acoustic instruments in a studio. Combining different mics like that. On the other hand maybe it sounds great. What do others think?

John Willett wrote:No - AKG is not really AKG anymore - first it was Harmanized and now it's Samsung.

I am not sure what to say about that. My 414's work great and they had a good review on SOS. Maybe it is the newer mics. I don't have enough knowledge about this....

The AKG C 391 B is an old mic I think. 1-2 decades. It is strange that no one has any experience with it.

The site http://www.microphone-data.com/ gives these specs

Output Sensitivity 10.0mV/Pa
Self Noise (DIN/IEC) 17dB-A

for Rode NT5 (A mic that I have and use) gives these

Output Sensitivity 12.0mV/Pa
Self Noise (DIN/IEC) 16dB-A

I guess they are not far off concerning their noise levels at least.
On the other hand noise is important to me because of the quiet acoustic sources.
Maybe I should buy two large capsule mics?

Thank you for all your answers
User avatar
solaris
Regular
Posts: 56
Joined: Mon Oct 27, 2003 1:00 am
Location: Greece

Re: M-S recording mics

Postby Bob Bickerton » Fri Nov 08, 2019 5:33 pm

MKH30/MKH8040 user here - but you don’t state what model of C414 you’re using. There’s a considerable difference between models.

Also, you don’t have to have a matched pair for MS, so one possibility would be to use a C414 for figure of eight and then a pencil condenser for the ‘M’ mic. This will open up lots of possibilities for you and give you an easier to manage set up.

Bob
User avatar
Bob Bickerton
Jedi Poster
Posts: 4038
Joined: Fri Dec 20, 2002 1:00 am
Location: Nelson, New Zealand
http://www.bickerton.co.nz

Re: M-S recording mics

Postby Sam Inglis » Fri Nov 08, 2019 6:04 pm

MBHO in Germany make a nice figure-8 capsule for their modular series which is relatively affordable -- more so than Schoeps anyway. Unfortunately I've lost mine!
Sam Inglis
Frequent Poster (Level2)
Posts: 2562
Joined: Fri Dec 15, 2000 1:00 am

Re: M-S recording mics

Postby Wonks » Fri Nov 08, 2019 6:32 pm

Sam Inglis wrote:MBHO in Germany make a nice figure-8 capsule for their modular series which is relatively affordable -- more so than Schoeps anyway. Unfortunately I've lost mine!

Not any more it seems. No fig-8 capsules listed on their web site

http://www.mbho.de/t2.htm
User avatar
Wonks
Jedi Poster
Posts: 10736
Joined: Thu May 29, 2003 12:00 am
Location: Reading, UK
Correcting mistakes on the internet since 1853

Next