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LUNA: New DAW from Universal Audio

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Re: LUNA: New DAW from Universal Audio

Postby Sam Inglis » Sat Jan 18, 2020 5:54 pm

ore_terra wrote:What I’d like to see is comping and vocals editing in LUNA

There is a playlist-style take management system called Versions in Luna, which presumably is intended for comping!
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Re: LUNA: New DAW from Universal Audio

Postby ConcertinaChap » Sat Jan 18, 2020 7:05 pm


OK, now I'm enthused. That was a genuinely helpful piece.

Sam Inglis wrote:There is currently no support for hardware control surfaces, though.

:(

Still it's only v1 after all.

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Re: LUNA: New DAW from Universal Audio

Postby ConcertinaChap » Sat Jan 18, 2020 8:21 pm

I'm seeing suggestions that Luna requires iLok. If that's correct (and it might just be the internet rumour mill, of course) why? If you can't use it without an Apollo hanging off your computer what need of any other copy protection?

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Re: LUNA: New DAW from Universal Audio

Postby Bob Bickerton » Sat Jan 18, 2020 8:57 pm

I’ve seen that too. Weird as UAD have always and will continue to use their interfaces as copy protection. It implies you can run the software without and interface connected even though they say you can’t do that.

I guess time will tell.

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Re: LUNA: New DAW from Universal Audio

Postby Agharta » Sat Jan 18, 2020 10:34 pm

Sam Inglis wrote:We filmed a pretty detailed overview of Luna with UA's Tom Waterman this morning:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RamldAJ2tdM

So a $5 fine for the UA guy for mentioning the word DAW and possibly a $5 credit for mentioning the term "Analogue Sounding Recording Environment"!
ASRE might not take off as a term unless it offers a lot of analogue bottom end. ;)
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Re: LUNA: New DAW from Universal Audio

Postby ConcertinaChap » Sun Jan 19, 2020 12:23 am

Bob Bickerton wrote: It implies you can run the software without and interface connected even though they say you can’t do that.

Yeah, but copy protecting free software :?: :eh: :roll:

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Re: LUNA: New DAW from Universal Audio

Postby djangodeadman » Sun Jan 19, 2020 10:45 am

I understood that the iLok is needed for the extensions, which run natively. Unless and until there's a Windows version, I won't be able to find out through.
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Re: LUNA: New DAW from Universal Audio

Postby ConcertinaChap » Sun Jan 19, 2020 10:55 am

That would make sense, but only if they don't need Luna to run but can be used in any DAW.

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Re: LUNA: New DAW from Universal Audio

Postby fredmant » Sun Jan 19, 2020 3:10 pm

Thanks Sam for the video. I've watched it twice. I have Apollo 8 and think the world of it. However, there is always room for improvement. I'm just not certain Luna is that improvement. Does Luna signify that there will be no more development for Console which is at version 2 currently?

UA's advantage (and one shared with other companies using Sharc processors in their audio interfaces) has been low latency. The claim, or at least implication, is that Luna presents an environment where your Daw (say ProTools) could be configured at 512 samples for editing and mixing and never need to be switched to 32 samples for tracking. However, that assumes that outside of analog sources, you'll be satisfied with the two or three VI's currently in UA's line up. In the real world, a UA Console/DAW or UA Luna/DAW codependency will need to be maintained for a long time to come if not indefinitely. Add to that the major investment many have made in complete VI solutions like Arturia Collection, Native Instruments Komplete, etc, hybrid tracking is a requirement that needs to be improved, not glossed over with UA-Centric solution.

Call me jaded, but Luna, far from being the talk of the town at NAMM 2020, is just another portal by which UA hopes to expand softening plug-in sales as that market becomes saturated. I would have been much happier to see a Console 3 release with a few improvements that benefit their customer base more than an entirely new product whose utility remains to be seen. I will try Luna of course and hope to see more from SOS and UA in the future on this topic.
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Re: LUNA: New DAW from Universal Audio

Postby currentsound » Wed Jan 22, 2020 3:18 pm

I shot some footage of Luna, asked some questions as well as used it myself in the Universal Audio booth at Namm. Here is the video and summary:
https://currentsound.com/general/universal-audio-luna-daw-first-impressions-review/
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Re: LUNA: New DAW from Universal Audio

Postby currentsound » Wed Jan 22, 2020 3:22 pm

fredmant wrote: However, that assumes that outside of analog sources, you'll be satisfied with the two or three VI's currently in UA's line up. In the real world, a UA Console/DAW or UA Luna/DAW codependency will need to be maintained for a long time to come if not indefinitely. Add to that the major investment many have made in complete VI solutions like Arturia Collection, Native Instruments Komplete, etc, hybrid tracking is a requirement that needs to be improved, not glossed over with UA-Centric solution.

On launch, Luna will support AU plugins. I would assume that will also include instruments. So I don't know why you would think you will only be able to use UAD's instruments.

Here is the video I shot asking about 3rd party plugins: https://youtu.be/JKSS6UbMXDA
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Re: LUNA: New DAW from Universal Audio

Postby Kayvon » Thu Jan 23, 2020 7:52 pm

If this thing can deal 100% with aligning external MIDI recordings and playback then colour me v interested. I disappeared up my own brainhole working out the flaws in recording MIDI spot on into Ableton so if I could have full confidence that what I'm playing in is being played back I'd have no problem buying into the Apollo platform.

The cynic in me suspects they may not be quite as ruthlessly intent on perfect MIDI timing but one can and does hope.
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Re: LUNA: New DAW from Universal Audio

Postby The Elf » Thu Jan 23, 2020 8:05 pm

desmond wrote:
jellyjim wrote:It's amazing it's free :o
*If* you have an Apollo or Arrow, of course - it only works with those.
...which makes it a new 'Pro Tools'.

I thought we'd done away with all that nonsense.
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Re: LUNA: New DAW from Universal Audio

Postby Bob Bickerton » Thu Jan 23, 2020 8:13 pm

Not nonsense if you’re already an Apollo owner!

Wasn't Pro Tools a case of the software driving the hardware purchase? I suspect this is the other way around - you buy into the hardware and now (potentially) you have the option of well integrated software to support your purchase.

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Re: LUNA: New DAW from Universal Audio

Postby The Elf » Thu Jan 23, 2020 10:21 pm

To me it would make more sense to stick with the DAW you already have that can also run on your mobile rig that (maybe) doesn't have an Apollo interface. And you can take that project to someone else who has your DAW, but a completely different AI.

I just don't see the point of an AI-brand-locked DAW. It feels like we've gone back two decades!
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Re: LUNA: New DAW from Universal Audio

Postby ConcertinaChap » Fri Jan 24, 2020 12:46 am

I'm open minded about this.

I've already got Apollo Tbolt kit so I can download it and use it at no cost. I will certainly download it and try it. Whether I will keep on using it will depend on whether the advantages outweigh the disadvantages when compared with Logic. The odds are against that since v1 doesn't support control surfaces but who knows what may come downstream.

I'm interested while it's free. If it ever costs or requires kit I don't already have then it would have to be bloody amazing to wean me off Logic.

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Re: LUNA: New DAW from Universal Audio

Postby Bob Bickerton » Fri Jan 24, 2020 1:59 am

Agreed - I'm not sure whether I will or won't use it, but it potentially has benefits that I can't get from Logic in terms of monitor sends etc. It's possible that, if I use it, it'll be for projects in the studio where I'm tracking other musicians and setting up monitor sends etc.

My mobile rig is based around Sound Devices anyway, so would I use Logic or Luna to process that - who knows?

You could consider Luna to be an optional extra to their Console software - as I said before I believe this to be hardware driven not software driven as in the case of ProTools.

What would be unfortunate is if UAD locked you into using Luna on their hardware - but that's not going to happen.

Anyway it's all conjecture and early days. Personally I've always considered changing DAW to be tantamount to changing religion and when you have to use another DAW it's feels as uncomfortable as wearing someone else's underwear (note - this is also conjecture).

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Re: LUNA: New DAW from Universal Audio

Postby OneWorld » Fri Jan 24, 2020 10:44 am

Bob Bickerton wrote: Personally I've always considered changing DAW to be tantamount to changing religion and when you have to use another DAW it's feels as uncomfortable as wearing someone else's underwear (note - this is also conjecture).

Bob

And when you're in between you have to go commando!

I am having a go at changing DAWs even though on Cubase10, I am trying the Bandlab Cakewalk. I really like the GUI, especially channel strip, which seems to make so much sense. Whereas with Cubase I have to keep opening and closing the mixer, which is an ugly critter anyway. It looks as if it was designed by the makers of Tonka Toys or Lada cars

But try as I might, as soon as I get back to Cubase I feel as if I have come home, speaking my native tongue instead of feeling like I am wandering around Wallonia being dependent on a phrase book.

Steinberg, please, please, please look at the Cakewalk GUI and I plight my troth to you and will never stray again (Although LUNA looks good!)
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Re: LUNA: New DAW from Universal Audio

Postby ore_terra » Fri Jan 24, 2020 11:22 am

I dont see myself moving from cubase either for mixing, but currently for recording I have to be switching from console to cubase and backwards to set the channels, as I like to print some comp and EQ (and corrective EQ if needed). for that currently I need to solo the track incubase, send the output back to a virtual input in console, tweak with the plugin there, and move the plugin to the right channel in console... you can imagine how those steps will be simplified with this LUNA :bouncy:

for me, if I can do the above, comping is as easy and quick and multichannel exporting is painless, I'm more than sold to LUNA.

beyond that, that emulated neve summing (price pending, of course :mrgreen: ), the tape oxide... if they're an improvement over my current tape shit thing and summing shit thing (J37 and console 5) that would be a plus too.
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Re: LUNA: New DAW from Universal Audio

Postby Hugh Robjohns » Fri Jan 24, 2020 1:25 pm

The Elf wrote:I just don't see the point of an AI-brand-locked DAW.

It makes sense from UAD's perspective.

Their business is based on plugins, and their's are locked into physical hardware... but general purpose computer tech is now so good that native plugs are easily as good. So their marketing advantage and market share are diminishing.

One way of maintaining and building the customer base is to offer something that no one else can do... like integrate the plugins with the interface to closer replicate vintage hardware and allow other features ... which they've done with Apollo.

And another is to offer a level of plugin integration, signal routing and control with the DAW that others just can't do... which they are now introducing with Luna.

I agree it isn't a very practical option for a professional like you who needs greater flexibility and independence, but for a lot of bedroom warriors it could be quite an attractive option. And once they get new users adopting the DAW most will remain UAD customers for life (assuming it's a decent product that's maintained and developed sensibly).

As a business model, I can see the hoped-for advantages...
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