You are here

Headphones recommendation

All about the tools and techniques involved in capturing sound, in the studio or on location.

Headphones recommendation

Postby Moozeeck » Wed Feb 05, 2020 2:17 am

I recently bought Genius HS-200C headphones https://www.cnet.com/products/genius-hs-200c-headset/ for using with DAW.
I delibaretly bought cheap headphones beacuse my opinion is if the music mix sound good on them then it'll sound good everywhere.
They have a nice sound, and they are mostly ok for the purpose I intend to, but I noticed a problem.
Headphones have some sound like it's spatial, I think you know what I am talking about.
Also, drums on them sound quieter then on other headphones or speakers.

My question is, what headphones would you recommend in range of this Genius, that would be good for the purpose of sound mixing with DAW?
Moozeeck
Poster
Posts: 15
Joined: Fri Jan 31, 2020 12:18 am

Re: Headphones recommendation

Postby John Willett » Wed Feb 05, 2020 2:13 pm

Moozeeck wrote:My question is, what headphones would you recommend in range of this Genius, that would be good for the purpose of sound mixing with DAW?

Nothing at all.

For mixing with a DAW you really need open-back headphones of the highest quality which you can trust.

These are not cheap.

I use teh Sennheiser HD 800, but the cheaper HD 700, HD 650 and HD 600 are also good. beyerdynamic open headphones are also recommended.

Yes - have cheap and cheerful headphones as well to check how the mix will sound on crap systems, but you will really need good cans to mix on.
User avatar
John Willett
Jedi Poster
Posts: 6603
Joined: Tue Mar 07, 2000 1:00 am
Location: Oxfordshire UK
John
Sound-Link ProAudio
Circle Sound Services
Sound-Link are UK Distributors for: Microtech Gefell, ME-Geithain, AETA, HUM, Håkan, Meyer Turtle

Re: Headphones recommendation

Postby blinddrew » Wed Feb 05, 2020 2:21 pm

As John says, you can't mix what you can't hear. Use cheap headphones for checking by all means but I'd be looking at something like a set of AKG K702 or Beyerdynamic DT880 or DT990 as a solid starting point for mixing headphones.
User avatar
blinddrew
Jedi Poster
Posts: 9099
Joined: Sun Jul 05, 2015 12:00 am
Location: York
Ignore the post count, I have no idea what I'm doing...

Re: Headphones recommendation

Postby MOF » Wed Feb 05, 2020 2:51 pm

Headphones have some sound like it's spatial, I think you know what I am talking about

I find that I need to mix on speakers to get levels and panning right but good quality open backed headphones for eq adjustments.
MOF
Frequent Poster
Posts: 592
Joined: Thu Mar 06, 2003 1:00 am
Location: United Kingdom

Re: Headphones recommendation

Postby The Elf » Wed Feb 05, 2020 3:51 pm

Moozeeck wrote:I delibaretly bought cheap headphones beacuse my opinion is if the music mix sound good on them then it'll sound good everywhere.
I'm afraid things don't work like that - though it would be a damned sight less costly for us all if it did!

Take a look at the AKG K7xx & K8xx. Easily my favourite mixing headphones and capable of producing commercially viable mixes.
User avatar
The Elf
Jedi Poster
Posts: 13505
Joined: Tue Aug 14, 2001 12:00 am
Location: Sheffield, UK
An Eagle for an Emperor, A Kestrel for a Knave.

Re: Headphones recommendation

Postby luantruong87 » Wed Feb 05, 2020 11:14 pm

I used KNS8400 for years and I just picked up Sennheiser HD600 and switch back and forth between these to do mixing. I feel HD600 gives better space accuracy and details to mix than KNS8400 does. I recommend using Sonarworks plugin to give better headphone performance.
luantruong87
Poster
Posts: 10
Joined: Wed Jan 29, 2020 5:58 pm

Re: Headphones recommendation

Postby CS70 » Wed Feb 05, 2020 11:26 pm

Moozeeck wrote:I delibaretly bought cheap headphones beacuse my opinion is if the music mix sound good on them then it'll sound good everywhere.

Imagine you buy glasses that filter out green, blue and white, or even show them as different colors. Then you want to evaluate a picture so that it looks good everywhere..

Bad speakers/room/headphones are more akin to that: they hide and confuse information. If you mix on them, chances are there'll be things in your mix you aren't hearing but other will, and things you think you're hearing, but aren't there (and in other places it'll be very noticeable).

Whereas a good mix will be reproduced to the best of the ability of any given playback system - as good as it can get on that one.

Room and speakers (in that order) or headphones are the most critical element for mixing - perhaps the only truly critical element worth investing money in in. All the rest - computers, DAWs, plugins is far less relevant - especially nowadays with free DAWs which come with pretty good stock effect plugins.
User avatar
CS70
Jedi Poster
Posts: 4803
Joined: Mon Nov 26, 2012 1:00 am
Location: Oslo, Norway
Silver Spoon - Check out our latest video and the FB page

Re: Headphones recommendation

Postby n o i s e f l e ur » Wed Feb 05, 2020 11:41 pm

MOF wrote:
Headphones have some sound like it's spatial, I think you know what I am talking about

I find that I need to mix on speakers to get levels and panning right but good quality open backed headphones for eq adjustments.

MOF, have you tried Waves Nx or a similar system? Give it a go, it will allow you to judge panning and levels better than phones alone. Obviously you'll probably want to sanity-check decisions on speakers, at least until you feel you can trust the system (if ever).


CS70 wrote:
Imagine you buy glasses that filter out green, blue and white, or even show them as different colors. Then you want to evaluate a picture so that it looks good everywhere..


Excellent analogy CS, and I tried using a similar one when discussing this subject with a visual-artist once, except I used a coloured lightbulb (as the lightsource illuminating the scene) per example. He didn't get it, refused to accept the premise entirely. Hopefully we'll have better luck ITT!

To be fair, your version is perhaps clearer than my attempt, plus I was drunk at the time!
n o i s e f l e ur
Regular
Posts: 237
Joined: Sat Aug 04, 2018 6:20 am

Re: Headphones recommendation

Postby Bob Bickerton » Thu Feb 06, 2020 10:21 am

CS70 wrote:Imagine you buy glasses that filter out green, blue and white, or even show them as different colors. Then you want to evaluate a picture so that it looks good everywhere...

Very good analogy, but to expand on it some more. Many of you will have noticed that when wearing yellow or pink tinted sunglasses, the colour hue difference seems extreme to begin with, but then we get used to it. Our brains adapt the information given. When we remove them initially everything has a blue hue - until we adjust again.

So this is a real problem if our sound source is not giving us full information - we quickly adapt what we’re hearing to be the norm - when it isn’t!

Bob
User avatar
Bob Bickerton
Frequent Poster (Level2)
Posts: 3990
Joined: Fri Dec 20, 2002 1:00 am
Location: Nelson, New Zealand
http://www.bickerton.co.nz

Re: Headphones recommendation

Postby n o i s e f l e ur » Thu Feb 06, 2020 5:13 pm

Really great point Bob, one I need to incorporate into my own attempts to explain this stuff in future.
n o i s e f l e ur
Regular
Posts: 237
Joined: Sat Aug 04, 2018 6:20 am

Re: Headphones recommendation

Postby Martin Walker » Thu Feb 06, 2020 5:45 pm

n o i s e f l e ur wrote:Really great point Bob, one I need to incorporate into my own attempts to explain this stuff in future.

Seconded - it's amazing what we can get used to - I recall an experiment with goggles that turned normal vision upside down. The test subject fell over quite a few times at first, but after a few hours (IIRC) of use, his brain adapted and interpreted the inverted image as normal.


Martin
User avatar
Martin Walker
Moderator
Posts: 15002
Joined: Wed Jan 13, 2010 9:44 am
Location: Cornwall, UK

Re: Headphones recommendation

Postby n o i s e f l e ur » Thu Feb 06, 2020 6:44 pm

Oh yeah Martin I remember that! Always meant to try it out on a . . . willing volunteer.

Of course the kicker to that particular experiment was that on removal of the goggles, normal unmoderated vision of the test subjects was flipped for some period of time until the brain started processing input nominally again.

I believe it's actually much harder to fool the brain on sound than on visuals. That is, that's what I've read - it's not a deeply held conviction.
n o i s e f l e ur
Regular
Posts: 237
Joined: Sat Aug 04, 2018 6:20 am

Re: Headphones recommendation

Postby n o i s e f l e ur » Thu Feb 06, 2020 6:56 pm

On the topic of headphone reccs . . . if you want amazing bass response and dynamics, Audeze ought to be included in the list.
n o i s e f l e ur
Regular
Posts: 237
Joined: Sat Aug 04, 2018 6:20 am

Re: Headphones recommendation

Postby MOF » Fri Feb 07, 2020 3:09 am

MOF, have you tried Waves Nx or a similar system? Give it a go, it will allow you to judge panning and levels better than phones alone. Obviously you'll probably want to sanity-check decisions on speakers, at least until you feel you can trust the system (if ever).

No I haven’t, I might buy Waves’ Abbey Road Studio 3 plugin some time but I think the combination of headphones and speakers is sufficient for now.
If I was constantly travelling with a laptop and had deadlines to fulfil then yes I’d buy it now.
MOF
Frequent Poster
Posts: 592
Joined: Thu Mar 06, 2003 1:00 am
Location: United Kingdom

Re: Headphones recommendation

Postby Moozeeck » Fri Feb 07, 2020 2:52 pm

Wow, I mean really wow!

I asked simple and straightforward question, and instead of a simple answer, I get 12 worthless answers.
I know that I can buy expensive mixing headphones, I am not interested in that!
I need a simple cheap headphones that wouldn't go wrong either!
Moozeeck
Poster
Posts: 15
Joined: Fri Jan 31, 2020 12:18 am

Re: Headphones recommendation

Postby zenguitar » Fri Feb 07, 2020 4:25 pm

As has been pointed out previously, you were wrong in your assumption that...
Moozeeck wrote:I delibaretly bought cheap headphones beacuse my opinion is if the music mix sound good on them then it'll sound good everywhere.
People have explained why, explained what is required, and given you suggestions of headphones that are capable of delivering a mix that will translate successfully across the board.

One of the best things about this forum is that people will point out cheaper options where they are available.

I’m sorry you don’t like the answers you’ve received. But that doesn’t mean they’re wrong.

Andy :beamup:
User avatar
zenguitar
Moderator
Posts: 9406
Joined: Thu Dec 05, 2002 1:00 am
Location: Devon
When you see a fork in the road, take it.
Yogi Berra

Re: Headphones recommendation

Postby Sam Spoons » Fri Feb 07, 2020 4:45 pm

Just looked at the link to those Genius headphones...... Gosh, when you said 'cheap headphones' I thought you meant $30 or $40!
User avatar
Sam Spoons
Jedi Poster
Posts: 11201
Joined: Thu Jan 23, 2003 1:00 am
Location: Manchester UK
Finally taking this recording lark seriously (and recording my Gypsy Jazz CD)........

Re: Headphones recommendation

Postby Hugh Robjohns » Fri Feb 07, 2020 5:13 pm

Moozeeck wrote:Wow, I mean really wow!

:lol: The exact same reaction that everyone here had when reading your opinion of headphone requirements and realising what you were actually looking for! :D

I asked simple and straightforward question, and instead of a simple answer, I get 12 worthless answers.

The answers are only worthless if you don't appreciate their value... :think:

I need a simple cheap headphones that wouldn't go wrong either!

Good luck in your search... I'm sorry we can't help you.

H
User avatar
Hugh Robjohns
Moderator
Posts: 25881
Joined: Fri Jul 25, 2003 12:00 am
Location: Worcestershire, UK
Technical Editor, Sound On Sound

Re: Headphones recommendation

Postby Chet Leeway » Fri Feb 07, 2020 5:32 pm

I guess you could find a pair of second hand Superlux headphones for around a tenner. You can get some for 16.30 € (though you'll have to pay for p&p) at Thomann. https://www.thomann.de/es/superlux_hd681.htm
User avatar
Chet Leeway
Poster
Posts: 49
Joined: Fri May 06, 2016 8:13 pm
Location: Barcelona

Re: Headphones recommendation

Postby The Elf » Fri Feb 07, 2020 6:26 pm

Moozeeck wrote:Wow, I mean really wow!

I asked simple and straightforward question, and instead of a simple answer, I get 12 worthless answers.
I know that I can buy expensive mixing headphones, I am not interested in that!
I need a simple cheap headphones that wouldn't go wrong either!
I, for one, won't be adding any more worthless answers to any of your questions. You think you know better than us, so good luck with your quest.
User avatar
The Elf
Jedi Poster
Posts: 13505
Joined: Tue Aug 14, 2001 12:00 am
Location: Sheffield, UK
An Eagle for an Emperor, A Kestrel for a Knave.

Next