You are here

Headphones recommendation

All about the tools and techniques involved in capturing sound, in the studio or on location.

Re: Headphones recommendation

Postby luantruong87 » Fri Feb 07, 2020 11:14 pm

Depend on how serious you want to use your hadphone to mix your recording. 2 of headphones that I see excellent quality for their price is KNS8400 and Sennheiser HD600 for now. I switch back and forth between these headphone to mix my track, then listen to the JBL LSR305 to adjust volume and reverb for vocal compare to the beat. After all, listen the mixdown on car speakers and using phone earphone to see if I need to adjust anything else. of course, added VST Sonarworks to your DAW to get best result for these headphones is a pls (this vst supports all of my headphones). For the price. I bought KNS8400 8 years ago around $100 when it just came out, you can find it around $80- for used one. I also got Sennheiser HD600 used one for only $130 in few weeks ago. And the monitor speakers from JBL only costs $99 for each new piece. i consider these prices are "cheap". However, you need to spend time to get acquainted with these stuff, then your mix will be more accurate.
luantruong87
Poster
Posts: 10
Joined: Wed Jan 29, 2020 5:58 pm

Re: Headphones recommendation

Postby Martin Walker » Fri Feb 07, 2020 11:17 pm

And before anyone else posts lots more useful information, we should bear in mind the OP's definition of 'cheap'.

The Genius HS-200C that he's having problems mixing with is a 'lightweight headband headset with boom microphone' that you can buy at Amazon .co.uk at £5.24 :silent:


Martin
User avatar
Martin Walker
Moderator
Posts: 14951
Joined: Wed Jan 13, 2010 9:44 am
Location: Cornwall, UK

Re: Headphones recommendation

Postby luantruong87 » Fri Feb 07, 2020 11:37 pm

Martin Walker wrote:And before anyone else posts lots more useful information, we should bear in mind the OP's definition of 'cheap'.

The Genius HS-200C that he's having problems mixing with is a 'lightweight headband headset with boom microphone' that you can buy at Amazon .co.uk at £5.24 :silent:


Martin

Well, I dont think there is any good headphones for monitor and mixing which cost less than $10, lolz. I think $100 is a standdard to invest on headphone
luantruong87
Poster
Posts: 10
Joined: Wed Jan 29, 2020 5:58 pm

Re: Headphones recommendation

Postby Moozeeck » Sat Feb 08, 2020 12:02 pm

If I could mix with those $5 headphones this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cKulT3XlopQ and this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hN6dmnKEioo then I certainly wont spend more then $12 on them.

I don't have a need for professional headphones, please try to understand that.

Limit your answer to what I asked for, I don't need exact brand or model (it would be good if you can provide it though) but rather specification of what I need.
Moozeeck
Poster
Posts: 15
Joined: Fri Jan 31, 2020 12:18 am

Re: Headphones recommendation

Postby Hugh Robjohns » Sat Feb 08, 2020 12:11 pm

Moozeeck wrote:I don't have a need for professional headphones, please try to understand that.

That's great... I think we do understand that now.

Equally, though, please try to understand that no one here has your amazing ability to mix accurately when using such inexpensive headphones.

I think the general consensus here is that we need the most accurate and revealing headphones available within our budgets, so we can actually hear the results of our mixing and processing decisions. And that mixing on the most accurate and neutral headphones is the only way to ensure the resulting material translates well to the widest possible range of end-user equipment -- be it speakers, headphones, in-ears or whatever, and across all quality levels from the cheapest and least accurate to the most expensive and most accurate!

I know it's been said already, but the danger of mixing on ultra-low-cost headphones is that you will end up (a) compensating for that specific system's inherent inadequacies /inaccuracies and (b) missing faults or balance issues in the material that may be revealed on more accurate and revealing listening conditions.

So while you might be able to make something sound great on those specific headphones, the mix may well end up sounding rough or less polished on something more accurate and revealing....

Limit your answer to what I asked for, I don't need exact brand or model (it would be good if you can provide it though) but rather specification of what I need.

I'm afraid your requirements are rather outside the experience and knowledge of anyone here... Sorry.

H
User avatar
Hugh Robjohns
Moderator
Posts: 25747
Joined: Fri Jul 25, 2003 12:00 am
Location: Worcestershire, UK
Technical Editor, Sound On Sound

Re: Headphones recommendation

Postby Rincewind » Sat Feb 08, 2020 3:17 pm

It is amusing to see how price and quality are often equated. Just because something is cheap does not mean it is bad and just just because something is expensive does not mean it is good. Having said that, there comes a point where the cost is so low that the product simply cannot be good for the intended purpose of the buyer.

In this case the headphones have been designed to be a cheap VoiP headset that reproduce, with little accuracy, voice frequencies. Using them for something else, like audio recording/mixing/"mastering", make absolutely no sense at all. The only thing these headphones represent are itself and even then the likelihood of it having the same response as another one if itself is very low. Until the audio community starts to professionalise its logic it should stop calling itself "Pro audio"!
Rincewind
New here
Posts: 6
Joined: Fri Jul 19, 2013 12:00 am

Re: Headphones recommendation

Postby Moozeeck » Sat Feb 08, 2020 3:20 pm

Hugh Robjohns wrote:Equally, though, please try to understand that no one here has your amazing ability to mix accurately when using such inexpensive headphones.
I am not Supermen, I am sure that's not true. :crazy:

Hugh Robjohns wrote:I think the general consensus here is that we need the most accurate and revealing headphones available within our budgets, so we can actually hear the results of our mixing and processing decisions. And that mixing on the most accurate and neutral headphones is the only way to ensure the resulting material translates well to the widest possible range of end-user equipment -- be it speakers, headphones, in-ears or whatever, and across all quality levels from the cheapest and least accurate to the most expensive and most accurate!

I know it's been said already, but the danger of mixing on ultra-low-cost headphones is that you will end up (a) compensating for that specific system's inherent inadequacies /inaccuracies and (b) missing faults or balance issues in the material that may be revealed on more accurate and revealing listening conditions.

So while you might be able to make something sound great on those specific headphones, the mix may well end up sounding rough or less polished on something more accurate and revealing....

Most people use cheap headphones that I use, so I think it's not big of a deal if it doesn't sound highy accurate on precise expensive headphones. I think you'll make worse mistake if you use super high precision headphones that cheap headphones can't support , because majority of people use very cheap headphones.
Again I say, it doesn't have to be super accurate, I am not looking for high precision, just as best it can be within range of cheap headphones.

I hope this is the end of this discussion, as I don't want to prolong this, so ANYONE PLEASE EITHER NAME SPECIFIC BRAND AND MODEL or GIVE ME A GUIDE OF A SPECIFICATION.
Moozeeck
Poster
Posts: 15
Joined: Fri Jan 31, 2020 12:18 am

Re: Headphones recommendation

Postby Moozeeck » Sat Feb 08, 2020 3:28 pm

Rincewind wrote:It is amusing to see how price and quality are often equated. Just because something is cheap does not mean it is bad and just just because something is expensive does not mean it is good. Having said that, there comes a point where the cost is so low that the product simply cannot be good for the intended purpose of the buyer.

In this case the headphones have been designed to be a cheap VoiP headset that reproduce, with little accuracy, voice frequencies. Using them for something else, like audio recording/mixing/"mastering", make absolutely no sense at all. The only thing these headphones represent are itself and even then the likelihood of it having the same response as another one if itself is very low. Until the audio community starts to professionalise its logic it should stop calling itself "Pro audio"!

OK, then name better one in range of $12, don't tell me they are not pro, I know that.
Moozeeck
Poster
Posts: 15
Joined: Fri Jan 31, 2020 12:18 am

Re: Headphones recommendation

Postby Rincewind » Sat Feb 08, 2020 3:41 pm

What I was trying to say is that just because something makes a sound does not mean it is any good. There is nothing good priced at 12 USD. It will only be useful to make a sound that is not useful. This community will not condone or recommend anything like that. Just buy something and quietly be happy with it, or more likely not happy once you realise how useless this approach is. Buy cheap, buy twice!
Rincewind
New here
Posts: 6
Joined: Fri Jul 19, 2013 12:00 am

Re: Headphones recommendation

Postby Hugh Robjohns » Sat Feb 08, 2020 4:16 pm

Moozeeck wrote:Most people use cheap headphones that I use...

I agree. Most people do use cheap headphones. But the ones they are using aren't the same as the ones you use, or the same as the ones their friends use! There are hundreds if not thousands of different 'cheap headphones' on the market, and they all sound quite different -- the tonal and temporal strengths and weaknesses of your headphones are likely to be very different from those of others.

... and you've already identified a couple of major failings with your set. That's going to be typical of headphones in your price range.

So to cure those failings you've identified, you will need headphones that have better drivers, and better acoustic enclosures... and immediately we are talking about something more expensive, because better equality costs more.

And now you're on the road everyone has been trying to explain and encourage... The idea of 'high quality' monitors or headphones is that they are as neutral and accurate as they can be, so that the user can audition the maximum information possible from the mix presentation and thus process and balance it accurately and consistently. That's the only way to ensure that the resulting mix works consistently and reliably on any system.

As always, there are different degrees of 'high quality'. When I started in this lark my first 'quality' headphones were Sennhesier HD414s (now discontinued)... and I thought they were fantastic until I later listened on some HD600s and discovered all sorts of things in mixes that I didn't even know were there on the 414s!

There are some very expensive headphones around, but like most things, the quality improvements become smaller and smaller as the costs go up and up. You don't need to spend big bucks to get something very capable and respectable.... but I'd really recommend spending more than a few quid!

I think you'll make worse mistake if you use super high precision headphones that cheap headphones can't support...

That's just not the way it works I'm afraid. In simplistic terms, ultra-cheap headphones will mask mix errors that can be heard quite easily by anyone using higher-quality models. And different ultra-cheap headphones will mask or fail to reproduce different things, so some listeners will be surprised or disappointed by things in the mix that you may not even be aware of! That's the fundamental problem with your approach.

ANYONE PLEASE EITHER NAME SPECIFIC BRAND AND MODEL or GIVE ME A GUIDE OF A SPECIFICATION.

There's no point in trying to define a spec because ultra-cheap headphones don't come with a spec! So allow I can suggest is that you buy whatever fits your ultra-low budget and feels comfortable on your head. That's as good as it gets.
User avatar
Hugh Robjohns
Moderator
Posts: 25747
Joined: Fri Jul 25, 2003 12:00 am
Location: Worcestershire, UK
Technical Editor, Sound On Sound

Re: Headphones recommendation

Postby MOF » Sat Feb 08, 2020 4:24 pm

Why are you so determined to spend such a small amount on equipment?
When I started getting into home recording I was a teenager and did Saturday and holiday jobs to buy an electric piano, stereo reel to reel tape recorder, monophonic synthesizer, then a four track recorder, basic mixer and SM58 microphone. The recording package alone was £1000 in 1978.
I had cheap headphones then but they would have been more expensive than what you’re proposing to spend now.
Given the quality you can achieve with modern DAWs you owe it to yourself to get some quality headphones to actually hear what you are mixing.
The AKG K371 headphones reviewed in February’s SOS magazine have a very good review and can be bought for £99.
There are issues with your ‘Professionals’ mix as you said originally and that’s why you need good quality headphones.
Wait until you do vocals then you’ll really struggle, don’t use the boom mic’ on the headphones unless you’re after a lo-fi sound.
MOF
Frequent Poster
Posts: 587
Joined: Thu Mar 06, 2003 1:00 am
Location: United Kingdom

Re: Headphones recommendation

Postby Moozeeck » Sat Feb 08, 2020 5:26 pm

Hugh Robjohns wrote:
Moozeeck wrote:Most people use cheap headphones that I use...

I agree. Most people do use cheap headphones. But the ones they are using aren't the same as the ones you use, or the same as the ones their friends use! There are hundreds if not thousands of different 'cheap headphones' on the market, and they all sound quite different -- the tonal and temporal strengths and weaknesses of your headphones are likely to be very different from those of others.

... and you've already identified a couple of major failings with your set. That's going to be typical of headphones in your price range.

I don't agree, most cheap headphones are basically all the same quality and sound in terms of specs.
As are the expensive ones. And it's not only about headphones, it's also about hifi system, not all players give the same sound with or without expensive headphones.

Hugh Robjohns wrote:So to cure those failings you've identified, you will need headphones that have better drivers, and better acoustic enclosures... and immediately we are talking about something more expensive, because better equality costs more.

Expensive is not always better, period.

Hugh Robjohns wrote:And now you're on the road everyone has been trying to explain and encourage... The idea of 'high quality' monitors or headphones is that they are as neutral and accurate as they can be, so that the user can audition the maximum information possible from the mix presentation and thus process and balance it accurately and consistently. That's the only way to ensure that the resulting mix works consistently and reliably on any system.

As always, there are different degrees of 'high quality'. When I started in this lark my first 'quality' headphones were Sennhesier HD414s (now discontinued)... and I thought they were fantastic until I later listened on some HD600s and discovered all sorts of things in mixes that I didn't even know were there on the 414s!

There are some very expensive headphones around, but like most things, the quality improvements become smaller and smaller as the costs go up and up. You don't need to spend big bucks to get something very capable and respectable.... but I'd really recommend spending more than a few quid!

Yes, up to $12.

Hugh Robjohns wrote:
I think you'll make worse mistake if you use super high precision headphones that cheap headphones can't support...

That's just not the way it works I'm afraid. In simplistic terms, ultra-cheap headphones will mask mix errors that can be heard quite easily by anyone using higher-quality models. And different ultra-cheap headphones will mask or fail to reproduce different things, so some listeners will be surprised or disappointed by things in the mix that you may not even be aware of! That's the fundamental problem with your approach.

It goes both ways, low and high-end headphones will never have equal sound, but as I said, most people have low-end headphones, so I think they will be more dissapointed with the sound then those one with high-end.
I talked to some pro-producers who say that they preffer some mid-to-low-end monitors in order to produce mix that will satisfy both end of range, so I follow their logic.


Hugh Robjohns wrote:
ANYONE PLEASE EITHER NAME SPECIFIC BRAND AND MODEL or GIVE ME A GUIDE OF A SPECIFICATION.

There's no point in trying to define a spec because ultra-cheap headphones don't come with a spec! So allow I can suggest is that you buy whatever fits your ultra-low budget and feels comfortable on your head. That's as good as it gets.

That's really stupid what you said, beacuse everything has spec, you are just being arrogant and limited, you only value high price, not real quality.
Moozeeck
Poster
Posts: 15
Joined: Fri Jan 31, 2020 12:18 am

Re: Headphones recommendation

Postby Rincewind » Sat Feb 08, 2020 5:29 pm

Someone here is not listening! Let's move to another thread and offer help to those who want to listen to the expert advice given.
Rincewind
New here
Posts: 6
Joined: Fri Jul 19, 2013 12:00 am

Re: Headphones recommendation

Postby Moozeeck » Sat Feb 08, 2020 5:30 pm

MOF wrote:Why are you so determined to spend such a small amount on equipment?

Because it's waste of money for me to buy expensive headphones!
It's not about money, but value.
I just don't want to spend more then $12, it's not worth it for me.

MOF wrote:When I started getting into home recording I was a teenager and did Saturday and holiday jobs to buy an electric piano, stereo reel to reel tape recorder, monophonic synthesizer, then a four track recorder, basic mixer and SM58 microphone. The recording package alone was £1000 in 1978.
I had cheap headphones then but they would have been more expensive than what you’re proposing to spend now.
Given the quality you can achieve with modern DAWs you owe it to yourself to get some quality headphones to actually hear what you are mixing.
The AKG K371 headphones reviewed in February’s SOS magazine have a very good review and can be bought for £99.
There are issues with your ‘Professionals’ mix as you said originally and that’s why you need good quality headphones.
Wait until you do vocals then you’ll really struggle, don’t use the boom mic’ on the headphones unless you’re after a lo-fi sound.

Technology in 80's and now is quite different, low-end headphones then weren't good as these days.
I don't need them for vocals, just for instruments.
Moozeeck
Poster
Posts: 15
Joined: Fri Jan 31, 2020 12:18 am

Re: Headphones recommendation

Postby Moozeeck » Sat Feb 08, 2020 5:32 pm

Rincewind wrote:Someone here is not listening! Let's move to another thread and offer help to those who want to listen to the expert advice given.

Yes, you are!
It's like I have gone to shop to buy a candy, and sales person are convincing me to buy whole chocolate because it's bigger and better.

I don't want chocolate!
Moozeeck
Poster
Posts: 15
Joined: Fri Jan 31, 2020 12:18 am

Re: Headphones recommendation

Postby Hugh Robjohns » Sat Feb 08, 2020 5:38 pm

Moozeeck wrote:I don't agree, most cheap headphones are basically all the same quality and sound in terms of specs.

So why do you want to change the ones you already have if they are basically all the same quality and sound in terms of specs? :lolno:

Expensive is not always better, period.

True enough. Some expensive stuff certainly isn't as good as it could or should be... but better components are generally more expensive as a rule of thumb, so there is generally a reasonably good correlation between quality and cost, at least until you get to the extremes of the price range.

I follow their logic.

Fair enough. Perhaps you should ask them to suggest $12 headphones for you too. The simple fact is that you are asking for something that is outside the realm of experience and knowledge of the people on this site. Sorry. We're not trying to wind you up. It's simply that your requirements and experiences aren't aligned with those of the people contributing to these forums (which includes quite a few 'pro producers' and other audio professionals).

That's really stupid what you said, because everything has spec...

Yes, everything manufactured does have a spec of some form... but it's depressing how often the published spec is meaningless, even for high quality stuff... and for ultra low-cost products the spec is either not published at all, or even less helpful!

So show me a meaningful and useful published specification for any $12 headphone and I'll gladly change my mind!

;)
User avatar
Hugh Robjohns
Moderator
Posts: 25747
Joined: Fri Jul 25, 2003 12:00 am
Location: Worcestershire, UK
Technical Editor, Sound On Sound

Re: Headphones recommendation

Postby Rincewind » Sat Feb 08, 2020 5:42 pm

Much as I like chocolate, let's take a different analogy. What you are doing is going to a Rolls Royce dealer and asking about bicycles. You are then annoyed that you are getting advice about what colour your Silver Ghost should be whereas your real interest is a wheel pump. Just go to a bike dealer and buy what you want because we cannot help you.
Rincewind
New here
Posts: 6
Joined: Fri Jul 19, 2013 12:00 am

Re: Headphones recommendation

Postby Hugh Robjohns » Sat Feb 08, 2020 5:44 pm

Nice analogy! :lol: :clap: :thumbup: I'm sure Ian G will love being compared to Rolls Royce!
User avatar
Hugh Robjohns
Moderator
Posts: 25747
Joined: Fri Jul 25, 2003 12:00 am
Location: Worcestershire, UK
Technical Editor, Sound On Sound

Re: Headphones recommendation

Postby Sam Spoons » Sat Feb 08, 2020 5:48 pm

The car analogy may be a good one, imagine driving with all but a 6" square cleared in the middle of the windscreen covered in ice*. You could probably still drive but it won't be easy (or safe in the case of the car but, to the best of my knowledge nobody has died as a direct result of using cr@p headphones).

* TBF some people actually do that.

Anyway, spider senses tingling.......
User avatar
Sam Spoons
Jedi Poster
Posts: 11084
Joined: Thu Jan 23, 2003 1:00 am
Location: Manchester UK
Finally taking this recording lark seriously (and recording my Gypsy Jazz CD)........

Re: Headphones recommendation

Postby Kwackman » Sat Feb 08, 2020 5:49 pm

Sam Spoons wrote:Anyway, spider senses tingling.......
+1
User avatar
Kwackman
Frequent Poster
Posts: 1495
Joined: Thu Nov 07, 2002 1:00 am
Location: Belfast
Cubase, guitars.

PreviousNext

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users