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K&M 20811 Tall Mic Stand & Boom

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K&M 20811 Tall Mic Stand & Boom

Postby Trevor Johnson » Sun Mar 01, 2020 8:55 pm

Apologies, I appear to be posting a lot these days!!

Anyway, I used to have a very tall mic stand/boom, (bought from Savilles. York, when they were near Monkbar), but I lent it to someone and it never returned....

Any experience with the K&M 20811 Tall Mic Stand & Boom? I have a few K&M and am always impressed with the build quality. I have an interesting project, local organs, (before they disappear), playing English composers, (Wesley, Vaughan Williams, etc.,), using my new Mix Pre 3! I know that lighting stands can do the business, but am open for suggestions from the experts.

Incidentally, I know that omnis seem to be preferred for recording the organ, but I have had excellent results from the old AKG C202E1s in X/Y.; and the B&K lab trace is ruler flat. But I am lucky to have the NT55s with omni capsules. What do you recommend? I shall also be recording at some of my London venues, when the instrument is high above ground level! That's because I have been asked to record the works of J L Krebs, which I have to say, are rather unknown, but exceptionally good!!
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Re: K&M 20811 Tall Mic Stand & Boom

Postby Aural Reject » Sun Mar 01, 2020 9:02 pm

Happy user of the 20811 and the ST212 here for heavier things.

I’ve normally had enough reach with those when I’ve needed them...but others of the forum sometimes use things like Ambient boom poles where very high or distant access is required. Depending on the structure, of course, sometimes you can get things where you want them using other means.
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Re: K&M 20811 Tall Mic Stand & Boom

Postby Hugh Robjohns » Sun Mar 01, 2020 9:20 pm

I've just given a pair of 20811's away to the music recording department at UWE. They are, like most K&M stands, very well made and very stable... but they are also ludicrously heavy and don't fold down very small, which is why I've got rid of mine. Also, while the unique half-inch top thread makes sense if you're usimg the matching boom arm, it isn't very convenient if you're not... And given the additional significant weight I tend not to!

These days, I use mostly Manfrotto Master Stands where I need a simple vertical high stand.

https://www.manfrotto.com/uk-en/photo-m ... d-1004bac/

Street price is usually around £125 each, and less if bought as a set of three.

These are remarkably compact when folded down, and a fraction of the weight of even standard K&M boom arms, but they are just as stable in practice (although I sometimes use additional sandbag weights at the base if placed in proximity to moving public).

Multiple stands can be clipped together for storage and transport, too, which is very convenient. They go tall enough (3.6 metres) for most things, and can be extended further with an extension rod if needed (Manfrotto 099B gives up to a further 1.5m). They can also be used with a properly counter-balanced manfrotto boom arm, if necessary, but that wouldn't usually be required for organ recordings.
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Re: K&M 20811 Tall Mic Stand & Boom

Postby Trevor Johnson » Sun Mar 01, 2020 9:27 pm

Many thanks to both of you for your very useful replies!!

I shall go with Hugh's suggestions of the Manfrottots; I use some of their carbon fibre stuff already!!
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Re: K&M 20811 Tall Mic Stand & Boom

Postby John Willett » Sun Mar 01, 2020 9:36 pm

Hugh Robjohns wrote:I've just given a pair of 20811's away to the music recording department at UWE. They are, like most K&M stands, very well made and very stable... but they are also ludicrously heavy and don't fold down very small, which is why I've got rid of mine. Also, the half-inch top thread isn't very convenient!

These days, I use mostly Manfrotto Master Stands:

https://www.manfrotto.com/uk-en/photo-m ... d-1004bac/

Street price is usually around £130 each and less if bought as a set of three.

These are remarkably compact when folded down, and a fraction of the weight of even standard K&M boom arms, but they are just as stable in practice (although I sometimes use additional sandbag weights at the base if placed in proximity to moving public).

Multiple stands can be clipped together for storage and transport, too, which is very convenient. They go tall enough (3.6 metres) for most things, and can be extended further with an extension rod if needed. They can also be used with a properly counter-balanced manfrotto boom arm, if necessary, but that wouldn't usually be required for organ recordings.

Interesting - but it's a lighting stand.

Is the supplied thread a 3/8" mic. thread? Or is an adaptor required?
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Re: K&M 20811 Tall Mic Stand & Boom

Postby Trevor Johnson » Sun Mar 01, 2020 9:43 pm

s the supplied thread a 3/8" mic. thread? Or is an adaptor required?

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Thanks , John, I have several adaptors for the fore mentioned!
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Re: K&M 20811 Tall Mic Stand & Boom

Postby Aural Reject » Sun Mar 01, 2020 9:43 pm

Trevor Johnson wrote:Many thanks to both of you for your very useful replies!!

I shall go with Hugh's suggestions of the Manfrottots; I use some of their carbon fibre stuff already!!

I’ve got some of those too ;)
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Re: K&M 20811 Tall Mic Stand & Boom

Postby Hugh Robjohns » Sun Mar 01, 2020 9:54 pm

Like most manfrotto's, the top spigot has a 3/8-inch thread as standard, but the 16mm spigot also provides much better structural support and stability for accessories like wide mic bars, boom arms etc. The stand can carry up to 9kg, which would be a lot of big mics!

I meant to say earlier that where a tripod-base stand isn't acceptable for practical or aesthetic reasons, I use K&M 26007 tubes with 26700 heavy round bases. Best equivalent I can find to the long lamented bronze BBC cathedral stand, with just over a 3 metre reach (and can be extended again if really necessary).

And as AR says, I use Ambient Jumbo poles on big manfrotto stands where I need a long overhead reach or serious height. I own one myself and can borrow a couple more from a friend when necessary

Regarding the mics, perhaps try a Faulkner array to get the best of both worlds: use the D202s in an ORTF configuration, with the Rodes as spaced omni outriggers on the same stereo bar, 67cm apart. You can then blend in as much or as little of the omnis as needed against the ORTF pair to fill out the bottom octave and add a greater sense of spaciousness.

If you want more precise imaging and/or stronger mono compatibility, rig the D202s as an XY pair instead, and repeat the spaced omni trick...
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Re: K&M 20811 Tall Mic Stand & Boom

Postby John Willett » Sun Mar 01, 2020 9:59 pm

Hugh Robjohns wrote:Regarding the mics, perhaps try a Faulkner array to get the best of both worlds: use the D202s in an ORTF configuration, with the Rodes as spaced omni outriggers on the same stereo bar, 67cm apart. You can then blend in as much or as little of the omnis as needed against the ORTF pair to fill out the bottom octave and add a greater sense of spaciousness.

My understanding was that a "Faulken Array" was parallel fig-8s.

What you describe I hear mostly described as a "Phased array".

Having two different arrays described as a "Faulkner" can be quite confusing.
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Re: K&M 20811 Tall Mic Stand & Boom

Postby Aural Reject » Sun Mar 01, 2020 10:06 pm

John Willett wrote:What you describe I hear mostly described as a "Phased array".

Having two different arrays described as a "Faulkner" can be quite confusing.

And isn’t ;)

Beware the wrath of Iestyn :bouncy:
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Re: K&M 20811 Tall Mic Stand & Boom

Postby Trevor Johnson » Sun Mar 01, 2020 10:08 pm

Regarding the mics, perhaps try a Faulkner array to get the best of both worlds: use the D202s in an ORTF configuration, with the Rodes as spaced omni outriggers on the same stereo bar, 67cm apart. You can then blend in as much or as little of the omnis as needed against the ORTF pair to fill out the bottom octave and add a greater sense of spaciousness.

If you want more precise imaging and/or stronger mono compatibility, rig the D202s as an XY pair instead, and repeat the spaced omni trick...


Thank you, Hugh, I shall do exactly as you suggest and report back. Although I am insanely busy with the day jobs, so probably Easter.

The bottom end, as you say, is very important. A 32 foot stop, resonates at roughly 16Hhz, difficult to convey on even the best systems. Because, on a big H&H, or Cavaillé-Coll, whether playing, or listening, it hits you in the chest.
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Re: K&M 20811 Tall Mic Stand & Boom

Postby Hugh Robjohns » Sun Mar 01, 2020 10:16 pm

John Willett wrote:My understanding was that a "Faulkner Array" was parallel fig-8s.

I think he's held in such high esteem in some circles that almost anything slightly unusual he rigs is credited as a 'Faulkner array' :-) And I did say a Faulkner array rather than the Faulkner array.

As far as I know, the parallel 20cm spaced fig-8s thing was the first 'phased array' he conceived, but he also lays claim to a specific ORTF/outrigger array too. (See the video interview he did with Peter Freedman of Rode mics, for example).

Having two different arrays described as a "Faulkner" can be quite confusing.

Doesn't seem to bother fans of Mr Blumlein... :-D

I'm more confused over Tony's definition of a phased array I think... :lol: :think:
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Re: K&M 20811 Tall Mic Stand & Boom

Postby Dan LB » Sun Mar 01, 2020 10:16 pm

John Willett wrote:Interesting - but it's a lighting stand.

Is the supplied thread a 3/8" mic. thread? Or is an adaptor required?

I have a couple of the Manfrotto 1051BAC stands and they are equipped with 3/8 inch Whitworth threads - no adapter required. I presume it’s the same deal with the 1004BAC

IIRC mine came with 3/8 inch to 1/4 inch (‘quarter twenty’) adapters
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Re: K&M 20811 Tall Mic Stand & Boom

Postby Bob Bickerton » Sun Mar 01, 2020 11:18 pm

Looks like stands are covered.

Just a note about the NT55 omni capsules - they really are very good (for the price) and have a similar frequency response to KM183s.

I tend to use A/B omni on organ, but the Faulkner array (of the type mentioned) has a built-in Get-Out-Of-Jail-Free card - so highly recommended.

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Re: K&M 20811 Tall Mic Stand & Boom

Postby Mike Stranks » Wed Mar 04, 2020 8:40 pm

Hugh Robjohns wrote:As far as I know, the parallel 20cm spaced fig-8s thing was the first 'phased array' he conceived, but he also lays claim to a specific ORTF/outrigger array too. (See the video interview he did with Peter Freedman of Rode mics, for example).


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