You are here

Simple virtual drummer instrument

All about the tools and techniques involved in capturing sound, in the studio or on location.

Re: Simple virtual drummer instrument

Postby desmond » Tue May 19, 2020 5:11 pm

blinddrew wrote:(And it doesn't look like i can separate outputs in to different channels on my DAW).

I'm sure you can, Kontakt has multiple outputs... this is a fairly fundamental feature in a drum library...

Edit - I had a look, and yes, you can send drums to multiple outputs. Kontakt's multiple output support is, uh, less than intuitive :headbang: , but basically, go to the Outputs tab in Kontakt, and choose/create, say an 8x stereo output config.

Now, choose a multiple output instance of Kontakt in your DAW, and you can route individual drum channels to whichever of Kontakt's outputs you want in the Mixer -> Settings tab (where it says "Output") - all the available outputs you have configured in Kontakt are available from that menu.
User avatar
desmond
Jedi Poster
Posts: 9576
Joined: Tue Jan 10, 2006 1:00 am
mu:zines | music magazine archive | difficultAudio

Re: Simple virtual drummer instrument

Postby garrettendi » Tue May 19, 2020 6:15 pm

Can you get a refund if its inoperational? You’ve had it about a week
User avatar
garrettendi
Frequent Poster (Level2)
Posts: 2053
Joined: Sat Dec 10, 2005 1:00 am
"I mean, Led Zeppelin didn't write tunes that everyone liked. They left that to the Bee Gees"Wayne Campbell (Wayne's World)

Re: Simple virtual drummer instrument

Postby blinddrew » Tue May 19, 2020 7:21 pm

As Desmond has demonstrated above Garretendi, the issue is almost certainly with me and not with the software. Though I thought I had pretty much done what's suggested. Will have another look.
User avatar
blinddrew
Jedi Poster
Posts: 10172
Joined: Sun Jul 05, 2015 12:00 am
Location: York
Ignore the post count, I have no idea what I'm doing...

Re: Simple virtual drummer instrument

Postby desmond » Tue May 19, 2020 7:58 pm

Seriously, Kontakt's multi-output handling is just terrible, over-complicated and weirdly implemented.

What you'd expect to do:

- Load a multi-output Kontakt in your DAW (say, 8x stereo outputs)
- Create whatever additional mixer channels you need in your DAW to handle the Kontakt outputs
- In Kontakt, assign the kick to Kontakt output 1+2, the snare to output 3+4 etc... job done!

What you *actually* have to do:

... you know what, I was going to step by step the procedure but it's so unbelievable it would take me 12 paragraphs. You basically have to nuke the initial configuration (which probably has a few stereo outputs and a 5.1 surround config - useful!), and create a new bunch of Kontakt outputs, and map them to the *actual* plugin outputs.

But the list won't update until you make the new configuration the default, and remove and reload the multi-output Kontakt (yes, you make changes to the output config, you have to reload the plugin!). Now the list of available outputs will be correct, and you can now map (*sigh*), the Kontakt outputs to the host output channels (so that, eg Kontakt Stereo 1 is mapped to Outputs 1+2, Kontakt Stereo 2 is mapped to Outputs 3+4 etc - yes, you have to do this manually for no on godly earth reason.

*Anyway*, once you mapped all that stuff, and saved it as an output configuration preset, you can probably now load your actual Kontakt instrument, and assign your Kick to Stereo Output 1 (which we've told Kontakt is the plugin output 1&2) and so on.

Once you've got a working config saved, it's fine, but if you're not familiar with it, it will do your head in. I still find it fairly unbelievable everytime I go back there and look at what you have to do...
User avatar
desmond
Jedi Poster
Posts: 9576
Joined: Tue Jan 10, 2006 1:00 am
mu:zines | music magazine archive | difficultAudio

Re: Simple virtual drummer instrument

Postby The Elf » Tue May 19, 2020 8:39 pm

Kontakt's multi-outputs can be a very confusing minefield. Take a bit of time to understand what it's asking of you - it will be time well spent.
User avatar
The Elf
Jedi Poster
Posts: 14265
Joined: Tue Aug 14, 2001 12:00 am
Location: Sheffield, UK
An Eagle for an Emperor, A Kestrel for a Knave.

Re: Simple virtual drummer instrument

Postby blinddrew » Tue May 19, 2020 10:23 pm

Ok, I'll knuckle down to that when I've got some time and patience. I assume beating yourself to unconsciousness with one of your own limbs is somewhere around step 8?
User avatar
blinddrew
Jedi Poster
Posts: 10172
Joined: Sun Jul 05, 2015 12:00 am
Location: York
Ignore the post count, I have no idea what I'm doing...

Re: Simple virtual drummer instrument

Postby desmond » Tue May 19, 2020 10:32 pm

blinddrew wrote:Ok, I'll knuckle down to that when I've got some time and patience. I assume beating yourself to unconsciousness with one of your own limbs is somewhere around step 8?

Yes, but the temptation to do that starts to kick in around step 5...
User avatar
desmond
Jedi Poster
Posts: 9576
Joined: Tue Jan 10, 2006 1:00 am
mu:zines | music magazine archive | difficultAudio

Re: Simple virtual drummer instrument

Postby blinddrew » Tue May 19, 2020 11:09 pm

Right, good to know, thanks. :thumbup:
User avatar
blinddrew
Jedi Poster
Posts: 10172
Joined: Sun Jul 05, 2015 12:00 am
Location: York
Ignore the post count, I have no idea what I'm doing...

Re: Simple virtual drummer instrument

Postby stellavista303 » Thu May 21, 2020 6:58 am

Enjoyed reading this thread. I was in the same boat a few months ago and after reading this article on SOS I stuck with Logic Drummer (because it is so fast and easy) but set it up with my own mix using UAD plugins mainly:

https://www.soundonsound.com/techniques ... tual-drums

Basically I switched off all the default effects and mixing in Logic and pretty much followed the instructions in the article above more or less. So whatever solution you choose I would recommend reading the article above also.
stellavista303
New here
Posts: 6
Joined: Fri Feb 01, 2019 9:55 pm

Re: Simple virtual drummer instrument

Postby blinddrew » Thu May 21, 2020 9:06 am

Thanks stellavista303, I've read that article a couple of times already but it's always good for a refresher. :thumbup:

P.s. for anyone following along I've got the drag and drop sorted. Unlike every other drum instrument I've played around with (quite a few now!) where you navigate through the folders to the groove you want and drag it from the sub-menu, with NI you have to select that groove, then go up to the preview player and drag the sample from there. Which is, I think, not at all clear from the manual.
User avatar
blinddrew
Jedi Poster
Posts: 10172
Joined: Sun Jul 05, 2015 12:00 am
Location: York
Ignore the post count, I have no idea what I'm doing...

Re: Simple virtual drummer instrument

Postby blinddrew » Sat May 23, 2020 2:47 pm

Well, thanks to Desmond (again) and a nice chap on youtube I now have everything set up routing to channels in the DAW which means mutes, solos, fader changes etc all happen in real time. Which is nice.
And it's all saved as a template instrument which loads up correctly in one hit. :thumbup:
User avatar
blinddrew
Jedi Poster
Posts: 10172
Joined: Sun Jul 05, 2015 12:00 am
Location: York
Ignore the post count, I have no idea what I'm doing...

Re: Simple virtual drummer instrument

Postby desmond » Sat May 23, 2020 2:52 pm

:thumbup:

It's just a shame it takes a team of four people to do something which *should* be fairly straightforward. :headbang:

Kontakt is an *amazing* platform, but there's so much about it that's inherited from the early days of plugins that need re-thinking (at least in terms of the interface), but NI are *very* reluctant to change things because of the fact that the platform generates a lot of licensing money to sample developers, and they don't want to break or disrupt things.

Look at the difference in interface for editing and creating multisampled instruments in Kontakt - which is more or less the same interface from Kontakt 2 in the early 2000s, and Logic's new Sampler. Now which interface do you want to spend months working in on large, multi-thousand sample projects..?

Anyway - at least you can just enjoy using it, now! :thumbup:
User avatar
desmond
Jedi Poster
Posts: 9576
Joined: Tue Jan 10, 2006 1:00 am
mu:zines | music magazine archive | difficultAudio

Re: Simple virtual drummer instrument

Postby blinddrew » Sat May 23, 2020 3:07 pm

Yep, already dropped it into one project to replace the Manda Powerdrummer I was using before and I immediately prefer it.
Confirmation bias is a wonderful thing! :bouncy:
User avatar
blinddrew
Jedi Poster
Posts: 10172
Joined: Sun Jul 05, 2015 12:00 am
Location: York
Ignore the post count, I have no idea what I'm doing...

Previous