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EQ and monitoring

All about the tools and techniques involved in capturing sound, in the studio or on location.

Re: EQ and monitoring

Postby innerchord » Tue May 26, 2020 4:23 am

I never did hear these, but the specs are hilarious.
"Measured on-axis response of typical production 4320, including all peaks and dips, does not deviate more than 2 dB from the above curve."
That means that they could be -3dB at 1kHz and +3dB at 7kHz and still be "in spec"! :wtf:

ISTR I actually cancelled a studio booking once because of JBLs (being in the control room, that is). Several others had them as "band and management pleasers". :headbang:
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Re: EQ and monitoring

Postby Tim Gillett » Tue May 26, 2020 4:47 am

innerchord wrote:I never did hear these, but the specs are hilarious.
"Measured on-axis response of typical production 4320, including all peaks and dips, does not deviate more than 2 dB from the above curve."
That means that they could be -3dB at 1kHz and +3dB at 7kHz and still be "in spec"! ...

If we are making comparisons between one speaker and another, this is meaningless. What are the relevent specs of the other speaker?
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Re: EQ and monitoring

Postby Arpangel » Tue May 26, 2020 7:02 am

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Re: EQ and monitoring

Postby Hugh Robjohns » Tue May 26, 2020 10:04 am

Tim Gillett wrote:If we are making comparisons between one speaker and another, this is meaningless.

I suspect what's really meaningless is comparing the views of those that have actually heard the speakers in question, and those that are only reading the manufacturer's vintage literature...

:roll:
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Re: EQ and monitoring

Postby CS70 » Tue May 26, 2020 10:14 am

Sam Spoons wrote:Well, either you have a magic formula....... or have learned the more prosaic (but equally magic) trick of generating some harmonic content in you bass lines which can be reproduced my iPad speakers :D :D :D

Yes, normally it's easy but this time it was a b***: the bass player had used a vintage bass which was otherwise good sounding but had an equally vintage jack which was crackling a lot, and was terrrible. So I had to cut basically everything from mid-lows on.. it worked fine on monitors but with a 200Hz hi pass the bass was disappearing altogether.

Tried every trick and it really sucked - could make it sound good either with or without the hi pass but not so that it stayed good when engaging or disengaging it.

Finally, the solution was a combination of a dollop of distortion, drastic EQ moves to be able to raise whatever little harmonics were created that way without making the bass booming without the HPF, Wave's bass rider to help with the level, two multiband compressors doing slightly different jobs and mono-izing and gaining up the lower bass to get everything to gel equally well from 300Hz down both on stereo speakers and mono phone.

'twas a sweat. Picked up this morning on monitors and it ain't half bad, but it's probably the most time I have ever spent on a bass line.. :D
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Re: EQ and monitoring

Postby Sam Spoons » Tue May 26, 2020 10:26 am

Fix it in the mix taken to the Nth degree..... :clap: :clap: :clap: Well done that man.....
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Re: EQ and monitoring

Postby Hugh Robjohns » Tue May 26, 2020 10:26 am

... And how long would it have taken to re-record the part with a functioning bass? :lol:
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Re: EQ and monitoring

Postby Dub til you drop » Tue May 26, 2020 10:41 am

Hugh Robjohns wrote:... And how long would it have taken to re-record the part with a functioning bass? :lol:
Yup. One of the things that gets my blood pressure up is when someone turns up at the studio with an instrument that sounds absolutely dreadful and says "yes, it's been like that for ages".

Grrrrrrrrrrrrr. :crazy:
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Re: EQ and monitoring

Postby CS70 » Tue May 26, 2020 10:48 am

Hugh Robjohns wrote:... And how long would it have taken to re-record the part with a functioning bass? :lol:

I guarantee you it crossed my mind ;-) Had that been an option, very little. Since it wasn't, an eternity.. :D Coronavirus means I could help with the recording myself and there would be no guarantee a second time (even if possible) would be better..

At a certain moment was actually tempted to re-play the line myself or program a bass synth follower.. even looked for plugins that would do that automatically. But the performance was special and pretty good, so getting it right in the mix was the most efficient thing to do.

Sometimes "professional" is to make do with the stuff you have :D
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Re: EQ and monitoring

Postby CS70 » Tue May 26, 2020 10:53 am

Dub til you drop wrote:
Hugh Robjohns wrote:... And how long would it have taken to re-record the part with a functioning bass? :lol:
Yup. One of the things that gets my blood pressure up is when someone turns up at the studio with an instrument that sounds absolutely dreadful and says "yes, it's been like that for ages".

Grrrrrrrrrrrrr. :crazy:

Ahah that's exactly the reply I got when I asked! :D

But it's all about different perspectives.. when I have my musician hat, I hear the performance - with the mixing engineer hat I hear the noises..
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Re: EQ and monitoring

Postby Hugh Robjohns » Tue May 26, 2020 11:20 am

CS70 wrote:Sometimes "professional" is to make do with the stuff you have :D

Of course... been there many times, taken many, many hours to fix all manner of crud that would have been far better to have re-done had that been an option. Sadly, sometimes it just isn't despite all our best efforts.
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Re: EQ and monitoring

Postby zenguitar » Tue May 26, 2020 11:26 am

Of course, 2 minutes with a soldering iron and a pair of pliers would have fixed the problem at source ;)

Andy :beamup:
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Re: EQ and monitoring

Postby Dub til you drop » Tue May 26, 2020 11:39 am

zenguitar wrote:Of course, 2 minutes with a soldering iron and a pair of pliers would have fixed the problem at source ;):

Fully agree. But there's a risk there.

So you take the back off the bass, and a load of spiders and and pieces of potentiometer drop out. Now the damn thing is dead, and needs its innards replaced and a total rewire. Can't be used on the session.

Everybody now says "you bust the bass which was working fine".

You didn't of course, but you get the flack.

Or... you perform major surgery and make it fantastic, and all they do is moan about how much time you wasted, and rather than paying you for the repair they're demanding a discount.

Forgive my cynicism, it took years to grow it. :roll:
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Re: EQ and monitoring

Postby Tim Gillett » Tue May 26, 2020 12:08 pm

zenguitar wrote:Of course, 2 minutes with a soldering iron and a pair of pliers would have fixed the problem at source ;)

Andy :beamup:

Yes or maybe just a different guitar lead, or contact cleaner or IPA on a cotton bud to clean the jack and socket contacts. For really corroded contacts, abrasives such as a nail file can work wonders as a temporary fix.

What was Sam just saying about 10 boring things?
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Re: EQ and monitoring

Postby CS70 » Tue May 26, 2020 12:13 pm

zenguitar wrote:Of course, 2 minutes with a soldering iron and a pair of pliers would have fixed the problem at source ;)

Andy :beamup:

The challenge now is that lots of recording is left to the musicians. Most of whom think they are ok at it, but aren't :D
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