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EQ and monitoring

All about the tools and techniques involved in capturing sound, in the studio or on location.

Re: EQ and monitoring

Postby Sam Spoons » Sun May 24, 2020 1:10 pm

The Elf wrote:
Sam Spoons wrote:iPad speakers or via ear buds? iPad speakers don't reproduce bass at all.....
Then accept it like that. No point boosting bass on a system that can't reproduce bass! :headbang:

My point exactly :D
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Re: EQ and monitoring

Postby Arpangel » Sun May 24, 2020 1:14 pm

A friend likes Hip-Hop, he has an off-the-shelf "hi-fi" from a department store, it has a big sub-woofer, it’s in no way accurate or neutral, he’s making his own music now, with his sound card plugged into his hi-fi, he comes to my place, and listens to my KEF's, OK, not modern but still good, and he hates them, he’d probably hate most of the high end neutral stuff too, but that’s OK, a lot of these guys mix on PA systems, it’s horses for courses.
It’s not a transparent, accurate sound at all, but it’s how they, along with their audience, want to hear it. I don’t particularly like it, and Intend to agree more about neutrality now, but that’s not my music, and he’s not me.
I’m really getting into listening to Jazz FM on the car stereo, which has got a giant smiley curve built in, A and I’ve turned up the bass, I’m loving it, I’ve got the window down, the sun is out, and my shades are on...

:D :D
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Re: EQ and monitoring

Postby The Elf » Sun May 24, 2020 1:21 pm

Arpangel wrote:A friend likes Hip-Hop, he has an off-the-shelf "hi-fi" from a department store, it has a big sub-woofer, it’s in no way accurate or neutral, he’s making his own music now
Which means that when he mixes he's compensating for what he's hearing!

By adding bass to a monitoring system that's not about how your audience will *hear* it - quite the opposite, in fact. Because it is likely that the mix will be bass-shy! :headbang:

Arpangel wrote:It’s not a transparent, accurate sound at all, but it’s how they, along with their audience, want to hear it.
But if you monitor with heavy bass bias, then your audience is likely to get a bass-shy mix!

Have we strayed into Wonderland here?!?!? :headbang:
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Re: EQ and monitoring

Postby Arpangel » Sun May 24, 2020 2:46 pm

The Elf wrote:But if you monitor with heavy bass bias, then your audience is likely to get a bass-shy mix!

Have we strayed into Wonderland here?!?!? :headbang:

Very true, but I don’t think some people care, and what level of bass is the right level in music like Hip-Hop? It’s a totally variable abstract thing, I’ve heard bass on some of those tracks that’s way OTT and peaking out, but it’s just accepted as being part of the vibe.
I guess if you’re making Techno or whatever, the logic is that you want to heart it how your audience is going to hear it, and that’s what you mix on.
A lot of headphones are designed with extra bass for this type of music, and it’s all very well having standards that a lot of us here adhere to, but that’s not the real world, listeners, engineers, producers, we all have different tastes in monitoring, and if there was such a thing as a flat speaker, and that was the standard, then why are there so many brands all offering sometimes radically different sounds? because we all choose them to suite the music we make, and our differing rooms.
My music is experimental ambient Jazz type stuff, I’m not looking for massive bass extension and high power handling, I need something with a bit of detail and good clarity, at low/moderate levels, totally different requirements from an EDM or Heavy Metal producer may be.
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Re: EQ and monitoring

Postby Chimera » Sun May 24, 2020 4:51 pm

iPad into AKG k702
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Re: EQ and monitoring

Postby Sam Spoons » Sun May 24, 2020 6:37 pm

You should be hearing what's there then. I suppose you might have some eq setting hidden away in iOS switched on but I'm sure you've thought of that. It should sound more or less the same played through the K702s from a iPad or a PC or whatever
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Re: EQ and monitoring

Postby innerchord » Sun May 24, 2020 8:07 pm

If you want to test your mixes and train your ears you should invest in one of the correction apps for your iPad. It will really help fix the problems the AKGs (and other headphones) have.

Response correction software is one of the best things to have come along in a long time. It's been my best value purchase of the last few years, I think.
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Re: EQ and monitoring

Postby desmond » Sun May 24, 2020 8:22 pm

I tried the Sonarworks one - I found it quite good on my old Sennheisers, but it make the AKG 702's sound *terrible*, so I wasn't sure what the point was.

The EQ plot of the 702's isn't super coloured so I would have thought any attempt at flattening it out would be subtle - the the effect was way too dramatic to make them usable in that config...
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Re: EQ and monitoring

Postby MOF » Mon May 25, 2020 10:38 pm

To be fair there were a few people who pointed out the foolishness of these things back then. It took a while for the penny to drop, but drop it did and we all eventually saw sense.
AIR Studios in the mid 1970s had Tannoy speakers in three of their studios at Oxford Circus and JBLs in one of the smaller studios, they were there for American clients. They sounded harsh to me and it’s only in recent years I’ve heard neutral JBLs.
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Re: EQ and monitoring

Postby CS70 » Mon May 25, 2020 11:25 pm

The Elf wrote:
Sam Spoons wrote:iPad speakers or via ear buds? iPad speakers don't reproduce bass at all.....
Then accept it like that. No point boosting bass on a system that can't reproduce bass! :headbang:

Now I read this thread... I've just spent the better part of three hrs into massaging a bass line so that it can be heard also on my ipad speakers... :shock: :D
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Re: EQ and monitoring

Postby Sam Spoons » Mon May 25, 2020 11:40 pm

Well, either you have a magic formula....... or have learned the more prosaic (but equally magic) trick of generating some harmonic content in you bass lines which can be reproduced my iPad speakers :D :D :D
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Re: EQ and monitoring

Postby Tim Gillett » Mon May 25, 2020 11:48 pm

MOF wrote:
To be fair there were a few people who pointed out the foolishness of these things back then. It took a while for the penny to drop, but drop it did and we all eventually saw sense.
AIR Studios in the mid 1970s had Tannoy speakers in three of their studios at Oxford Circus and JBLs in one of the smaller studios, they were there for American clients. They sounded harsh to me and it’s only in recent years I’ve heard neutral JBLs.

I've just been reading up on the old JBL 4320 studio monitors. From the published specs its hard to believe they would have sounded harsh ... except of course on harsh sounding programme...
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Re: EQ and monitoring

Postby Hugh Robjohns » Mon May 25, 2020 11:55 pm

Tim Gillett wrote:I've just been reading up on the old JBL 4320 studio monitors. From the published specs its hard to believe they would have sounded harsh

Ha! :lol: Go stand in front of a pair... Experiencing the reality with your ears would make it much easier to believe. Two-way horn system designed for volume more than fidelity...
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Re: EQ and monitoring

Postby James Perrett » Tue May 26, 2020 12:55 am

JBL's always received a critical panning from the hifi press in the UK. I remember them exhibiting at the Audio Fair at Olympia where they had built a soundproof demo room so that they could crank up the volume to a level far higher than anyone else was using. Admittedly it was impressive to a youngster like me at the time but I now know that the Tannoys of the time can pull the same trick with much more finesse.
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Re: EQ and monitoring

Postby Tim Gillett » Tue May 26, 2020 2:55 am

Here is the paper I was referring to, with laboratory measurement results.

http://lcweb2.loc.gov/master/mbrs/recor ... onitor.pdf

"The JBL 4320 series studio monitor was introduced through Capitol Records in Hollywood and became the standard monitor worldwide for its parent company, EMI."
(my emphasis).

Source: Wikipedia.
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