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Heads Up on CDR Degradation - New Results

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Heads Up on CDR Degradation - New Results

Postby dubbmann » Tue Jul 28, 2020 5:52 pm

Hi all,

Those of us who are old enough will recall the conjecture that "CD creep" will cause the eventual degradation and unreadability of CDRs recording digital data. This obviously proved untrue or at least premature.

Here's a new article saying that the demise of CDRs recording 15-25 years ago may be at hand.

https://www.howtogeek.com/682807/the-cd ... eed-to-do/

I don't vouch for the article but thought I'd share it for SoSers to take under advisement. FWIW, I have noticed some of my CDRs are beginning to show problems where before they were completely playable

Cheers,
d
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Re: Heads Up on CDR Degradation - New Results

Postby desmond » Tue Jul 28, 2020 5:57 pm

I pulled out most of my optical media a few years back and backed the contents up to HD, and even then, I was starting to get problems reading disks, so I'm wary of anything on optical media if it's been around a while.

If it's your only copy of data, I'd be very sure to get take copies of the data onto another format rather than trust that you can pull out the optical media 10 years from now and expect to be able to read it...
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Re: Heads Up on CDR Degradation - New Results

Postby James Perrett » Tue Jul 28, 2020 8:34 pm

I'm regularly picking out old CD-R's from 20 or more years ago and not seeing any problems apart from the one bad batch that went bad very shortly after being recorded. My discs are kept in the dark in a normal room at a fairly even temperature. There have been plenty of these articles but they just don't tie in with my personal experience.

Yes, it is always safest to have more than one backup but I'm not going to be throwing out my CD-R's just yet.
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Re: Heads Up on CDR Degradation - New Results

Postby cyrano.mac » Tue Jul 28, 2020 9:12 pm

It depends on the quality of the media used.

The one plant that made quality media, ended with the Fukushima disaster.

Like James, my CDr archive goes back nearly 25 years and doesn't show any problem. The one set that went bad 'till now, was made on an early version of OSX. I must've been wary, cause I also burnt a set under OS9 and that one's still fine.

Mind you, I no longer use CDr or DVDr for archival. HD's are cheaper.
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Re: Heads Up on CDR Degradation - New Results

Postby Martin Walker » Wed Jul 29, 2020 10:14 am

I was given a box of Verbatim CD-R disks that seemed to burn perfectly, but gave up the ghost with excessive gapping within a week :(

I still burn at 8x for audio CDs using Wavelab 8, which works perfectly with most media. Not sure why these object to my burns.


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Re: Heads Up on CDR Degradation - New Results

Postby Eddy Deegan » Wed Jul 29, 2020 10:24 am

Burnable media does seem to be a bit of a minefield. I was transferring the contents of 30 or so (Hi-Space and Verbatim) backup CDs and DVDs (burned between 10 and 15 years ago) to an external SSE drive earlier this week and found that about a third of them had some unreadable files, although others on the same disc were OK.
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Re: Heads Up on CDR Degradation - New Results

Postby Hugh Robjohns » Wed Jul 29, 2020 10:28 am

The die layer is an organic compound (several different types were used) and it naturally decays over time. Some claimed a reliable life of over 100 years, others less, but storage conditions make a big difference -- especially light exposure, temperature and humidity.

Some of the CD-Rs I made in the early 90s are still fine... and some aren't! (But they were all transferred to NAS boxes with a good backup strategy decades ago, along with my DAT tapes...)

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Re: Heads Up on CDR Degradation - New Results

Postby desmond » Wed Jul 29, 2020 10:56 am

The bottom line is, regardless of what media you used, or how well you stored them, there's no way to know* they've gone bad until you try to read them.
Not the most reliable of storage for important data, which I why I don't trust it at all any more... :headbang:

* In the worst cases, there's often visible degradation happening, but stuff can become unreadable *way* before that happens
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Re: Heads Up on CDR Degradation - New Results

Postby ken long » Wed Jul 29, 2020 10:58 am

I think the bigger issue here isn't the CD-Rs which, as others have pointed out, can last quite long if stored in the right conditions. The issue is the diminishing availability of drives and really we're talking about drives that can report errors accurately.
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Re: Heads Up on CDR Degradation - New Results

Postby ef37a » Wed Jul 29, 2020 11:00 am

Put it on Music cassette!
I have recently played some I made over 40 years ago and they are still fine.

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Re: Heads Up on CDR Degradation - New Results

Postby Hugh Robjohns » Wed Jul 29, 2020 11:03 am

It's even worse if CD-Rs are recorded as (red book) audio CDs rather than as (orange book) CD-ROMs because the former format has a MUCH weaker error-protection/correction system which intentionally relies on concealment by interpolation when error rates rise too high, whereas the CD-ROM format has a far more sophisticated error-protection/correction system and can cope with a lot worse and still deliver bit perfect results...

But every system has its limits and recordable CD-ROMs fail too, of course... Magneto-Optical formats are more reliable... but still not 'for ever'
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Re: Heads Up on CDR Degradation - New Results

Postby Hugh Robjohns » Wed Jul 29, 2020 11:03 am

ef37a wrote:Put it on Music cassette!

They tried that with the DCC format... never did live up to the hype... :lol:
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Re: Heads Up on CDR Degradation - New Results

Postby ef37a » Wed Jul 29, 2020 11:13 am

Hugh Robjohns wrote:
ef37a wrote:Put it on Music cassette!

They tried that with the DCC format... never did live up to the hype... :lol:

Got one! It worked brilliantly several years ago but now borks and says "clean heads".

Actually I really like Mini Disk and I understand there is now some software that can do fast transfer with certain machines? Got two of those, a Sony and a Grundig by crickey!

Although I was never bothered by the compression used for MD I would gladly trade the 90 minutes run time for say 60mins (or less, got a SHED load of discs!) of linear .wav.

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Re: Heads Up on CDR Degradation - New Results

Postby ken long » Wed Jul 29, 2020 11:20 am

ef37a wrote:
Hugh Robjohns wrote:
ef37a wrote:Put it on Music cassette!

Actually I really like Mini Disk and I understand there is now some software that can do fast transfer with certain machines?

The last (or one of the last) Sony devices the MZ-1 will do this. The software is called Sonic Stage (you'll need to run a virtual XP).

https://www.sony.com/electronics/suppor ... s/00024289
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Re: Heads Up on CDR Degradation - New Results

Postby ef37a » Wed Jul 29, 2020 11:23 am

ken long wrote:
ef37a wrote:
Hugh Robjohns wrote:
ef37a wrote:Put it on Music cassette!

Actually I really like Mini Disk and I understand there is now some software that can do fast transfer with certain machines?

The last (or one of the last) Sony devices the MZ-1 will do this. The software is called Sonic Stage (you'll need to run a virtual XP).

https://www.sony.com/electronics/suppor ... s/00024289

Oh well that's buggered that then Ken! I am not nearly THAT computer smart!

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