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SDC mic query

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Re: SDC mic query

Postby blinddrew » Fri Aug 28, 2020 3:41 pm

MOF wrote:In truth I should just get on with singing and mixing and then get the songs out there, instead of obsessing about something no one else will notice.
Quoted for truth.

(as they say on the internetz) ;)
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Re: SDC mic query

Postby The Elf » Fri Aug 28, 2020 4:22 pm

Allow me to echo that for acoustic guitar a pair of mic's is a very good idea. When a guitar is buried in a mix that's fine, but expose it as a solo instrument and a mono guitar can sound unnaturally thin and one-dimensional. This all depends on context, but having a stereo option can save a lot of trouble in the long run.
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Re: SDC mic query

Postby rggillespie » Sat Aug 29, 2020 11:20 am

Thanks for pointing that out The Elf, I've not done any stereo recording at all so it will be very interesting to try that out. My solo acoustic does sound a little unnatural somehow, I couldn't quite pinpoint why though, perhaps in stereo it will seem to be placed in a recorded space making sound more natural or real. I seem to have settled on either beyer mc930 or the Rode TF5, I'll try of them out first. Thanks to all for the tips and pointers, its much appreciated.
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Re: SDC mic query

Postby blinddrew » Sat Aug 29, 2020 11:26 am

Just to add a further spanner to your mic mix, for acoustic guitar I've recently become a big fan of M/S recording...
;)
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Re: SDC mic query

Postby The Elf » Sat Aug 29, 2020 11:59 am

blinddrew wrote:Just to add a further spanner to your mic mix, for acoustic guitar I've recently become a big fan of M/S recording...
;)
Yep, I'm also a huge fan of that technique for acoustic guitar. It really is a 'best of both worlds' option!
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Re: SDC mic query

Postby ManFromGlass » Sat Aug 29, 2020 12:50 pm

Devils advocate for a second here. Has anyone ever compared either a stereo acoustic guitar recording or a mid/side recording vs a mono recording with a widening plugin like SoundToys or numerous other companies make?
I’m guessing that going the plugin route could lead to problems with mono compatibility if one is not careful.
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Re: SDC mic query

Postby Hugh Robjohns » Sat Aug 29, 2020 1:05 pm

There's a very simple way to achieve stereo widening without risking mono compatibility, and that's to use an MS decoder, use your mono recording as the Mid channel, and create a fake Side channel.

Consider a simple scenario with a guitar being played in a small room, with a real MS array placed in front. The Mid mic receives the direct sound and (let's assume it has a narrow polar pattern) very little else from the room. The Side mic doesn't hear any direct sound, but does get strong reflections from the walls. Obviously, those reflections will be delayed relative to the direct sound by 1ms per foot of extra distance. So the key difference between the Mid and Sides signals is a short delay.

So, to create the fake Side signal, all we need to do is split (mult) the original (mid) signal, high-pass filter it above about 100Hz (this is to avoid the stereo image leaning to the left at low frequencies!), and then delay it by 10-50ms. The longer the delay, the bigger the stereo width effect will appear -- as in it will sound like a bigger room space. In the MS decoder adjust the level of Side vs Mid to control the perceived stereo width in the usual way.

If you want even more realism, instead of a simple short delay, use a reverb effect with lots of pre-delay and a strong early reflection pattern (minimal reverb tail).

As always with Mid-Sides processing, the Sides signal (the fake one in this case) always disappears completely when the track is summed to mono, leaving just the original mono guitar recording intact and uncompromised.

So to recap, duplicate the original mono track and route both to a stereo channel/group etc (depending on your DAW's configuration) where you have inserted an MS decoder plugin. In the duplicated track channel, insert a high-pass filter and either a delay or a (mono) reverb plugin. Fiddle with the settings until you arrive at a sound you like!
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Re: SDC mic query

Postby ManFromGlass » Sun Aug 30, 2020 1:57 pm

So I don’t have to part with hard-earned $$ for a new plugin to get this effect? How crazy is that? :D
Another easy and brilliant idea to keep in the toolbox!
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Re: SDC mic query

Postby blinddrew » Sun Aug 30, 2020 3:59 pm

I'm just thinking of the occasions where someone, who hypothetically might look a little bit like me, went to the effort of setting up an M/S rig (or even a simple stereo one) but forgot to change the input on track two to the second mic...
This would be a very nice little rescue method! :thumbup:
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Re: SDC mic query

Postby ManFromGlass » Sun Aug 30, 2020 5:09 pm

Funny that, someone who looked a bit like me might have placed the mics to give that weird hollow phasey sound not on purpose :shifty:
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Re: SDC mic query

Postby MOF » Mon Aug 31, 2020 5:17 pm

It can be very addictive... I go to Mics Anonymous once a month but it's not really working... :lol:

I still miss the old Microphones subforum. :(

CC
If we get that back (did it really exist?) the guitarists will want a pickups sub forum. :lol:
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Re: SDC mic query

Postby rggillespie » Mon Aug 31, 2020 6:05 pm

Very surprised to find deliveries being sent out today, but instead of a holiday this year, my new Rode' TF5 arrived and they are really are stellar. Just had this afternoon so far, using one aimed at 12th fret and straight away it's excellent, best I've recorded sound I've managed. I'm really surprised just how much one mic is quite different to another from the same source, but first impressions of the Rode is that its are both crystal clear and natural/warm. I'll be investigating the stereo options asap, but first impression of a single one is that they should sell them singly! I really don't think I would have made this choice without some help from the forum, so thanks again to all the kind souls here for the tips.
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Re: SDC mic query

Postby Hugh Robjohns » Mon Aug 31, 2020 7:43 pm

:clap: :thumbup:

The TF5 really is a very impressive mic, and proof -- if any were still needed -- that Rode are now able to compete head-on with the long established European and American mic manufacturers.... And win in some cases!
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Re: SDC mic query

Postby Arpangel » Tue Sep 01, 2020 6:55 am

rggillespie wrote:but first impressions of the Rode is that its are both crystal clear and natural/warm.

HHmm? I might investigate, my MKH's are very good, but if you’re not careful they can sound a bit hard, or brittle, transparency taken into account Hugh ;)
I’ve heard this complaint occasionally from clients who know nothing, and expereinced engineers.
If the TF5 has this "natural warmth" and detail, it may be a viable alternative.
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Re: SDC mic query

Postby ef37a » Tue Sep 01, 2020 7:22 am

"My own reslo brilliantly serviced by xaudia is actually my favourite mic for everything but even with a fethead it is too noisy for finger style acoustic guitar."

If I might interject? I presume that is the 30 ohm RB? I have one and yes it is feeble!

Many moons ago I bought a 1:4 transformer from Sowter specifically designed to lift very low Z mics. I still cannot get quite the same sensitivity as an SM57 but just thought a transformer AND the Fethead might cut it?

Traff was about £40 iirc plus the diecast box and connectors I put it in.

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