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Latency Dante Via and Cubase: any ideas

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Latency Dante Via and Cubase: any ideas

Postby Oliver_Berlin » Sun Aug 30, 2020 10:02 am

Dear all
having read most of the Dante posts in this forum, it seems that latency and Dante was a problem of the past.

However, here is my challenge and maybe some outside the box thinking can help me:

My little basement studio consists of two rooms (10 m distance from each other, but given the architecture of the house 18m cable required).

One room is for recording loud stuff (Brass, Drums) and one is serving as a control room. So roughly this means up to six microphones from this room out and maybe three cues for headphones in.

How to connect them best? Analog mulitcore is not an option, as the required holes in the walls are just not bearable. Optical ADAT does not make the distance. USB cables neither. So I have started to try out Ethernet. I am on a budget but I had some spare equipment to start with

So I decided to connect the rooms as follows

A RME babyface and a fast desktop PC for Microphones and Headphone.
Connected via a gigabit switch to the control room PC (using an RME UC as audio device)
Dante Via and Dante Controller for routing.

DAW: Cubase 10.5 with Dante VIA as a soundcard. Everything clocked to 48khz

Good news: It works.
Bad news: The latency is killing me. According to Cubase it is 30ms (or roughly an 8th note at 120 bpm). So when I record, Cubase receives the recording just a little bit too late. SO I have to manually move the file on the timeline to sync playback and recording)

I have found very little advice on this, so I assume latency could be much lower, it is only my own dismal set-up that's wrong.

Here are my questions:


1. Is there a smarter way to use DANTE Via for this (I cannot be the only person connecting two rooms with Dante)
2. Can Cubase itself accomodate? (There is a button called recording latency compensation)
3. Is there a smarter, better way to connect these two rooms? I tried VST Connect but this a different story (buggy software, disgruntled users in the forums etc.)

Thanks so much for any advice and ideas
Oliver
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Re: Latency Dante Via and Cubase: any ideas

Postby Sam Spoons » Sun Aug 30, 2020 5:11 pm

Welcome to the forum :thumbup:

A couple of things, 1/8th note at 120BPM is 250ms if that is your latency I'm not surprised you are dissatisfied. But, while I haven't used Dante in the real world latency should be a lot less than 30ms, it's mostly used on high profile live gigs and in large commercial studios who would not tolerate poor performance.

But could the problem be to do with Cubase and the way it is set up?

If budget was not an issue another way might be to use a digital desk in the control room, say a Midas M32/Berry X32 (or one of the many others), and a stage box in the live room. They usually use their own proprietary connection over Cat5 cable with round trip latency in the low single digits.

Anyway I'm sure some Dante users will be along shortly to give you some more specific advice.
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Re: Latency Dante Via and Cubase: any ideas

Postby Oliver_Berlin » Sun Aug 30, 2020 6:50 pm

Sam thank you. The encouraging bit of your post is: In principle my set-up should be working. Now I need to find out, why it is not.
You were of course right about the latanecy measurement: Cubase reports 30ms, but in real life it is hight (8th note at 120 bpm). Thanks for flagging it up.
Yours
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Re: Latency Dante Via and Cubase: any ideas

Postby Sam Spoons » Sun Aug 30, 2020 7:04 pm

:thumbup:
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Re: Latency Dante Via and Cubase: any ideas

Postby Hugh Robjohns » Sun Aug 30, 2020 8:34 pm

Oliver_Berlin wrote:The latency is killing me. According to Cubase it is 30ms

The problem is that you're using software Dante interfaces on both computers. The expected latency with Via (and with DVS, for that matter) is around 10-15ms, so with two of them you're looking at around 20-30ms latency...which is exactly what you've got.

If you want the typical low (1-3ms) latency that Dante is rightly praised for, you need to use the dedicated hardware interfaces, I'm afraid. In your case that would typically be a Dante network card in the control room PC and a Dante hardware mic pre unit in the 'loud room'.
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Re: Latency Dante Via and Cubase: any ideas

Postby Oliver_Berlin » Tue Sep 01, 2020 7:54 pm

Thanks so much. Your input helped me to think outside the box.

The quick fix Solution was a simple one: a shielded cat6 cable transmitting analog Audio. Thomann asked 40 quid for a 4 channel stagebox. Soundtools offer even 8 channels via cat6. Sufficient for my issue
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Re: Latency Dante Via and Cubase: any ideas

Postby Sam Spoons » Tue Sep 01, 2020 9:21 pm

Great result Oliver, sometimes just looking at something from a different angle is all that is needed.
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Re: Latency Dante Via and Cubase: any ideas

Postby Hugh Robjohns » Tue Sep 01, 2020 9:32 pm

:thumbup: :D
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Re: Latency Dante Via and Cubase: any ideas

Postby forumuser840717 » Wed Sep 02, 2020 1:07 am

Oliver_Berlin wrote:Thanks so much. Your input helped me to think outside the box.

The quick fix Solution was a simple one: a shielded cat6 cable transmitting analog Audio. Thomann asked 40 quid for a 4 channel stagebox. Soundtools offer even 8 channels via cat6. Sufficient for my issue
Oliver

Just a thought but are you sure that Soundtools do eight channels over a single Cat.6 cable?

Cat.6 only has four twisted pairs - so four balanced lines. (I guess they could do 8 unbalanced lines with pairs of lines sharing shields but this isn't really ideal for sending analogue audio over any real distance and doesn't appear to be what they do in anything I've seen on their site.)

On Soundtools' website they do a box with 8x XLRs on it - 4x Male and 4x Female but they're in parallel pairs of M & F per channel so still only four separate balanced lines/channels, not 8. The parallel XLRs just make it easier to plug in sends or returns without needing specially wired cables or XLR adapters - I have parallel XLRs on most of my stage boxes for that reason (mainly).

They also do a 12 channel box but that uses three, normal, four-channel Cat.5/6/7 cables to carry the 12 channels.

If you need more than four balanced channels you'd need to use more than one Cat. (5/6/7/whatever) cable but if you only need four lines then the analogue audio over Cat. cable is a neat solution. And the Soundtools type parallel XLR boxes will save some faffage with plugging but you could easily solder up similar boxes/panels for yourself (or even use IDC connectors if you aren't able to solder).
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Re: Latency Dante Via and Cubase: any ideas

Postby Oliver_Berlin » Sun Sep 13, 2020 10:06 am

Dear all
thanks so much for all your input and your valuable comments. I solved the problem for 75 EUR. Here's my solution I came up with your help:

1. Dante VIA does not provide the latencies required without some hefty hardware invest. So how else can connect two rooms digitally /via LAN?

2. Some of you pointed me towards analog adio over lan transmitter. The cheapest one was from Thomann for 40 EUR
https://www.thomann.de/de/the_sssnake_c … gKUsfD_BwE

Now I was able to transmit two Channels to and from one room to the other

3. But: This box also transmits an AES signal. Since my RME UC transmits and receives AES (it just takes an RCA to XLR cable) I can send and reive two channels auf digital audio.

4. In the other room I am using a RME BAbyface. Unfortunatly it only has an optical in/out. Enter Studiospares little box
https://www.studiospares.com/studiospar … 465760.htm. It converst Toslink to the AES format.

Outcome: I can send and receive 4 channels digital audio plus two analog signals between these two rooms. Which is enough for my purpose.
Thanks for your help
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Re: Latency Dante Via and Cubase: any ideas

Postby Hugh Robjohns » Sun Sep 13, 2020 11:19 am

:thumbup: :clap:
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