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Record “fake” overhead drums

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Re: Record “fake” overhead drums

Postby ore_terra » Thu Sep 24, 2020 3:18 pm

I pan audience perspective, but not because I mentally visualice what I'm mixing but because that's how most of the music I listen to is done.

once I mixed a band with a left handed drummer, and I panned [his] drummer perspective :lol: :lol:

HH on the right; ride on the left.

and agreed with The Elf and desmond: overhead hard panned and close mics filling the space. my floor toms sometimes go beyond that 60%, but I think it was with a glyn johns style OH's, and the floor tom felt really "that" far.
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Re: Record “fake” overhead drums

Postby Tomás Mulcahy » Thu Sep 24, 2020 3:21 pm

Tomás Mulcahy wrote:I find simple panning to be entirely unconvincing for an immersive experience. It has to be combined with level, timbre and reverb. Even if you're standing right behind the drummer you don't experience the hats as discretely over on one side, you're getting all of the reflected sound as well from all around you.

Watchmaker wrote:As a drummer and engineer, this whole panning the drums thing makes me laugh. In what room to do actually hear a drumset in stereo such that you can aurally separate the hi-hat location from the ride? is 3 feet actually enough width for your brain to process a meaningful stereo field? Sure it's fun to hear a fill scroll right to left, but really...put the drums in the middle 95% of the time.

Stereo on the drumset is completely artificial...
Well if you're using a stereo array such as AB or XY for the overhead, that's just stereo. Panning is built in, it's unwise to mess with it. The hope is that the "width" was decided on during recording.

Like I said above, simple panning is only one part of getting the illusion of stereo to work. I think "a meaningful stereo field" is hard to define. It could be argued that stereo is a very poor approximation of how we experience sound. Added to that, it's beyond subjective. For most people, it's a subconscious thing, they don't have any opinion on it at all. I used to run a little test where students would hear stereo recordings with the channels at correct polarity and with one inverted. Most students struggled to describe the difference. About 30% could not even hear a difference. Obviously not a rigorous study but personally polarity inverted on one side makes me nauseous, even when walking past exhibits at a trade show. So maybe we are a bunch of weirdos for even having an opinion on this :lol:
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Re: Record “fake” overhead drums

Postby Luke W » Thu Sep 24, 2020 3:23 pm

The Elf wrote:Panning overheads fully L/R doesn't give an unnatural, super-wide drum kit. It leaves the kit between the extremes. The trick is to pan close mic's to match the overheads.

Definitely agree with that. Unless someone did something very strange with the mics then the overheads panned hard either way should give a good representation of what the kit sounds like. It's when people start placing the close mics way outside of that image that it starts sounding odd to me. As always though, just my opinion.
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Re: Record “fake” overhead drums

Postby adrian_k » Thu Sep 24, 2020 4:17 pm

Yes actually I quite like recording real drums XY from the front, it doesn’t sound especially wide but it sounds ‘solid’. And I would obviously pan them hard L/R.

Programmed drums, well that’s a different game.

HOTL or HOTR? Honestly don’t care. As a guitar player there’s a drummer somewhere behind me over my shoulder, could be either side, and the experience is hardly ever ‘immersive’.
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