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Beginner help

All about the tools and techniques involved in capturing sound, in the studio or on location.

Re: Beginner help

Postby CS70 » Sat Oct 03, 2020 10:53 am

zen17 wrote:Thank you. Not looking for top grade audio at present- I think if I set out for that then I’ll spend so long studying/perfecting that I’ll never start.

Good attitude. But nothing to worry about either: achieving top grade audio (or whereabouts) isn't really that hard or expensive nowadays - so long you understand what matters.

It’s more just about knowing what basic kit I need to fill in any major gaps with what I have. It’ll be a mixture of instructional VO, some audio tracks- a large portion for ‘internal’ type situations rather than commercial work (at this stage). Hoping the H2 zoom will do for some voice over stuff directly? I’ve used it for live audio but not as a direct voice recorder straight to the Mac.

I've never used one but it might - as above, the gear impact is relatively limited (unless it's horrendous gear of course). Give it a try. A well treated room, careful positioning of the mic, suitable gain staging and a clear diction on your side will give good results with basically anything. Whereas a recording made using a top microphone, but in a bad room with bad diction, will sound like crap.

As said, the pop filter is useful.

As you say, getting started is the hardest. Was wondering if it might be an idea to get a rode mic for voice over but figured I have the H2 so use that to start with until I navigate how things are going to fall into place with the new landscape.

Yeah. Different gear will give you slightly different sounds and bring you to do (or not do at all) some post processing EQ but it's mostly a matter of "different", not "better".

The main issue you want to be careful about is noise... so and so long the Zoom preamps are passable, its gain controls reasonable and you record at average -18dbFS at 24 bit, it shouldn't be a problem to get something very usable out of it.

The only problem you might encounter could be the Zoom preamps being more noisy than expected and if it does not record at 24bit.. all of which is workable but requires more skill and attention. In that case the obvious step is to get an inexpensive 2-channel interface.
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Re: Beginner help

Postby musicista vecchio » Mon Oct 05, 2020 1:02 am

This is probably an unwelcome tangent, and I apologize, but the thread title made me chuckle and reminded me of how we recorded band practice back in the day.

We recorded no instruments.
We recorded no voices.
We recorded the house mix from the open air, as if we were bootlegging it.
That, we thought, was how we would actually sound live to human ears.

One can still make an argument for that.
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Re: Beginner help

Postby Arpangel » Mon Oct 05, 2020 10:16 am

musicista vecchio wrote:This is probably an unwelcome tangent, and I apologize, but the thread title made me chuckle and reminded me of how we recorded band practice back in the day.

We recorded no instruments.
We recorded no voices.
We recorded the house mix from the open air, as if we were bootlegging it.
That, we thought, was how we would actually sound live to human ears.

One can still make an argument for that.


I’ve recorded many bands that way, if you use high quality gear you get a combination of good quality, and a great live feel, and it’s surprising sometimes, nothing is lost musically or emotionally, due to not recording in a "controlled environment"
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Re: Beginner help

Postby musicista vecchio » Mon Oct 05, 2020 6:13 pm

If you record off the live sound mixer, which is still recording the house mix but not from the house sound that the house is hearing,

you have to mike the drums,

even if the room is small enough that you otherwise wouldn't.

The Sabian drum mic set is good for that, by the way.

Our electric instruments--keys and strings--are all direct to mixer now. "Amplifier sound" is important in rock 'n' roll, I suppose, but we easily do without it. Too much stuff to schlep around as it is. And with wi fi, you can control the mix from anywhere in the venue now.
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Re: Beginner help

Postby MOF » Mon Oct 05, 2020 8:00 pm

We recorded no instruments.
We recorded no voices.
We recorded the house mix from the open air, as if we were bootlegging it.
That, we thought, was how we would actually sound live to human ears.

One can still make an argument for that.

That’s not my experience, I used to do a lot of concerts where we were taking a feed from the FOH mixer (all stage sources including drums) and before or after we had recorded the numbers we were allowed to film I listened to the PA sound and it was no good, no sense of focus or clarity or a good stereo soundfield. I only used to fade up my stereo mic’ pair for audience reaction after songs and solos.
Conversely when I’ve been recording acoustic instruments in a hall they sound lovely.
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Re: Beginner help

Postby musicista vecchio » Tue Oct 06, 2020 3:51 am

MOF wrote:
We recorded no instruments.
We recorded no voices.
We recorded the house mix from the open air, as if we were bootlegging it.
That, we thought, was how we would actually sound live to human ears.

One can still make an argument for that.

That’s not my experience, I used to do a lot of concerts where we were taking a feed from the FOH mixer (all stage sources including drums) and before or after we had recorded the numbers we were allowed to film I listened to the PA sound and it was no good, no sense of focus or clarity or a good stereo soundfield. I only used to fade up my stereo mic’ pair for audience reaction after songs and solos.
Conversely when I’ve been recording acoustic instruments in a hall they sound lovely.

I would certainly agree that it's not the ideal way to make an archival recording.
We were recording band practice. If somebody was blowing clams, we could hear that.
If we were tight, we could hear that. That's what band practice recordings were for.

But you're right--they weren't hi fi.
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Re: Beginner help

Postby zen17 » Tue Oct 20, 2020 12:41 am

Mike Stranks wrote:Regarding the WorkerBee... the styling and colour are a 'discussion point'! May be a downer for you...

I'm linking to a review below. I trust this guy... he knows what he's talking about. He's an extrovert, but... so what if he delivers on his reviews?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ScI1U3ey9ZY

Thank you, that’s great.
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Re: Beginner help

Postby zen17 » Tue Oct 20, 2020 12:44 am

James Perrett wrote:
zen17 wrote:Safe to assume tech has developed so much that my previous knowledge is obsolete.

The basic tech has actually developed very little since you've been away. However, what was high end back in 2000 has now become affordable and people are finding different ways of using the tech. There's also an awful lot more rubbish being put up on Youtube which people seem to blindly follow which can lead to some very strange practices being common.

Thank you for the kind words and confidence boost.

If you see something that goes against what you thought you knew, don't assume that your previous knowledge was wrong - unless the new technique comes from a trusted source.
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Re: Beginner help

Postby zen17 » Tue Oct 20, 2020 12:48 am

CS70 wrote:
zen17 wrote:Thank you. Not looking for top grade audio at present- I think if I set out for that then I’ll spend so long studying/perfecting that I’ll never start.

Good attitude. But nothing to worry about either: achieving top grade audio (or whereabouts) isn't really that hard or expensive nowadays - so long you understand what matters.

It’s more just about knowing what basic kit I need to fill in any major gaps with what I have. It’ll be a mixture of instructional VO, some audio tracks- a large portion for ‘internal’ type situations rather than commercial work (at this stage). Hoping the H2 zoom will do for some voice over stuff directly? I’ve used it for live audio but not as a direct voice recorder straight to the Mac.

I've never used one but it might - as above, the gear impact is relatively limited (unless it's horrendous gear of course). Give it a try. A well treated room, careful positioning of the mic, suitable gain staging and a clear diction on your side will give good results with basically anything. Whereas a recording made using a top microphone, but in a bad room with bad diction, will sound like crap.

As said, the pop filter is useful.

As you say, getting started is the hardest. Was wondering if it might be an idea to get a rode mic for voice over but figured I have the H2 so use that to start with until I navigate how things are going to fall into place with the new landscape.

Yeah. Different gear will give you slightly different sounds and bring you to do (or not do at all) some post processing EQ but it's mostly a matter of "different", not "better".

The main issue you want to be careful about is noise... so and so long the Zoom preamps are passable, its gain controls reasonable and you record at average -18dbFS at 24 bit, it shouldn't be a problem to get something very usable out of it.

The only problem you might encounter could be the Zoom preamps being more noisy than expected and if it does not record at 24bit.. all of which is workable but requires more skill and attention. In that case the obvious step is to get an inexpensive 2-channel interface.
. Thank you, I understood some of that, some I’ll need to google. Working with limited time to learn so will just be a case of diving in and learning as I go mostly.
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Re: Beginner help

Postby zen17 » Tue Oct 20, 2020 12:52 am

musicista vecchio wrote:This is probably an unwelcome tangent, and I apologize, but the thread title made me chuckle and reminded me of how we recorded band practice back in the day.

We recorded no instruments.
We recorded no voices.
We recorded the house mix from the open air, as if we were bootlegging it.
That, we thought, was how we would actually sound live to human ears.

One can still make an argument for that.

I wish it was that simple. It would make things a lot easier. I have used the zoom that way. Unlikely to be recording electric instruments, or bands but I wouldn’t know where to start if I was so it would be a point, click and go recording!
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