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Mackie 1202 no aux sends on ALT Output.

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Mackie 1202 no aux sends on ALT Output.

Postby Arpangel » Mon Oct 19, 2020 9:11 am

This is a well known issue, and it’s bugged me for a long time, I really don’t know why they didn’t allow the ALT out to access the aux sends, I can’t see any positive reason to do this, it’s very frustrating, and it’s got to the point where I need to replace this mixer, so I’m going to get a Behringer XENYX X1622 it has a proper sub group, and hopefully, it won’t cut off my aux sends, but I need to be sure, I’ve downloaded the manual and it says nothing about this, so I’m hoping that one of you guys may be familiar with this.
I’m only using this mixer as a sub on my modular, but it’s an annoying thing that catches me out quite frequently when I want to use the ALT out.
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Re: Mackie 1202 no aux sends on ALT Output.

Postby The Korff » Mon Oct 19, 2020 9:24 am

I'm not quite sure what you mean... The Alt out is just an alternative mix bus; you'd expect to use the aux sends on the input channels to send to foldback, effects etc.

Or do you mean that engaging the Alt/Mute button on a channel renders that channel's aux sends inoperative? Because that would be very annoying!
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Re: Mackie 1202 no aux sends on ALT Output.

Postby Hugh Robjohns » Mon Oct 19, 2020 10:33 am

Arpangel wrote:This is a well known issue...

Arrrggghhhh ....... It's not an 'issue', it's an intentional design feature that is clearly explained in the manual.

I really don’t know why they didn’t allow the ALT out to access the aux sends

First, the pre-fade Aux send still works when the Mute/Alt button is pressed. It's only the post-fade auxes that are muted...

And they are muted intentionally because the button is primarily a MUTE button. So it mutes FX sends, but leaves foldback unaffected. Exactly what it's supposed to do, and what most people need it to do.

The ALT output facility using the same MUTE button is a potentially useful extra function because it could be added for minimal cost -- but it is not a 'true' sub-group output and it inherently doesn't -- and can't -- have the same facilities as normal group routing in a bigger desk designed with conventional subgroups!

I can’t see any positive reason to do this, it’s very frustrating...

That's because you want to use a tiny desk for something that it wasn't designed to be used for, and you either didn't read, or have forgotten, the explanation about the Mute/Alt button provided in the manual.

There are plenty of applications where the provision of the Alt output is really, really useful... but it's plainly not suited to your requirements! You have the wrong desk being used in the wrong way!

...I’m going to get a Behringer XENYX X1622 it has a proper sub group, and hopefully, it won’t cut off my aux sends..

The manual doesn't include a block diagram, sadly, but it does explain that the Mute button kills post-fade auxes and leaves pre-fade auxes active -- just like the Mackie.... Funny that!

As for the group routing, I can only presume the channel output routing works like any other desk with dedicated main/group routing buttons and dedicated subgroups... I can't see anything to indicate it does anything unusual. So I'd presume it works in exactly the same way as the larger Mackie consoles designed with subgroups... can't imagine why.... :silent:
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Re: Mackie 1202 no aux sends on ALT Output.

Postby Arpangel » Mon Oct 19, 2020 10:42 am

Thanks for making this clear Hugh, I still need a mixer that doesn’t cut of all of the aux sends when sending to groups, any ideas?
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Re: Mackie 1202 no aux sends on ALT Output.

Postby Hugh Robjohns » Mon Oct 19, 2020 10:45 am

Any mixer designed with conventional group routing... including Greg Mackie's designs! For the analogue world, I'm a fan of A&H consoles, personally. Or you could go digital and gain far more aux sends and much more functionality... :lol:
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Re: Mackie 1202 no aux sends on ALT Output.

Postby Arpangel » Mon Oct 19, 2020 11:45 am

Hugh Robjohns wrote:Any mixer designed with conventional group routing... including Greg Mackie's designs! For the analogue world, I'm a fan of A&H consoles, personally. Or you could go digital and gain far more aux sends and much more functionality... :lol:

This is a sub mixer for my modular and another couple of synths, not my main mixer.
It has to be very small, I’ll just cobble something up as usual.

:roll:
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Re: Mackie 1202 no aux sends on ALT Output.

Postby Hugh Robjohns » Mon Oct 19, 2020 11:54 am

If it's for the modular, maybe a matrix mixer would suit your needs better?


Something like this Doepfer one, perhaps: Image


... Or like this random one...

Image

Or if it's a couple of sources needing to go to several destinations, maybe a zone mixer like the ART MX225?
https://artproaudio.com/product/mx225-mx225-zone-distribution-mixer/
Image
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Re: Mackie 1202 no aux sends on ALT Output.

Postby Arpangel » Mon Oct 19, 2020 11:59 am

Thanks folks, I’m getting worse regarding these things, thanks for being so patient.
I’m just not into all this like I used to be.
Hugh, not sure how that zone mixer would help me?

:think:

I know the bigger Mackie's have straightforward groups, that don’t cut off any sends, but, they are too big, I just don’t need the inputs.
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Re: Mackie 1202 no aux sends on ALT Output.

Postby Hugh Robjohns » Mon Oct 19, 2020 12:30 pm

Arpangel wrote:Hugh, not sure how that zone mixer would help me?

It could help you because...

I know the bigger Mackie's have straightforward groups, that don’t cut off any sends, but, they are too big, I just don’t need the inputs.

For situations requiring few inputs, but lots of outputs from those inputs -- and in a small footprint -- a simple matrix mixer will often provide a usable solution.

I gather you need to route a few input channels to at least two main outputs, along with at least two auxes... so a matrix mixer with 1>4 capability would seem to fit the bill. Much like the ones I highlighted previously.

The Zone mixer is a variation on that theme. The ART model takes two stereo inputs and routes them to five stereo outputs...

Of course, if you also require EQ on channels a matrix or zone mixer might not be what you need at all... or maybe it could be with separate hardware EQs on the sources? Who knows?
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Re: Mackie 1202 no aux sends on ALT Output.

Postby Arpangel » Mon Oct 19, 2020 12:43 pm

Hugh Robjohns wrote:
Arpangel wrote:Hugh, not sure how that zone mixer would help me?

It could help you because...

I know the bigger Mackie's have straightforward groups, that don’t cut off any sends, but, they are too big, I just don’t need the inputs.

For situations requiring few inputs, but lots of outputs from those inputs -- and in a small footprint -- a simple matrix mixer will often provide a usable solution.

I gather you need to route a few input channels to at least two main outputs, along with at least two auxes... so a matrix mixer with 1>4 capability would seem to fit the bill. Much like the ones I highlighted previously.

The Zone mixer is a variation on that theme. The ART model takes two stereo inputs and routes them to five stereo outputs...

Of course, if you also require EQ on channels a matrix or zone mixer might not be what you need at all... or maybe it could be with separate hardware EQs on the sources? Who knows?

Thanks Hugh, this mixer is connected to 3 synths, I need to route four outputs into my interface, this is completely separate from my main mixer, which is taken up with other things.
So, the Mackie main out, plus the ALT out, I’m OK with the main out, as it allows me to use both sends, which are routed to a couple of effects units.
I need to track the three synths separately, but I need the routing flexibility of the sends and returns for various reasons, if all four outputs enabled me to acces the sends all would be fine, I have one stereo synth to the main out, and two synths panned left/right out of the ALT, that all works fine into mono channels in my DAW.
All I’m missing is being able to use both effects on both sends, the sends, and returns on the Mackie all go through my patch bays.
Again, main problem, is space, I just need one big mixer, even my MG20 isn’t big enough, I’ve got lots of bits and pieces I need, cassettes, Pocket Operators, Monotrons, radios, loads of stuff.
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Re: Mackie 1202 no aux sends on ALT Output.

Postby ManFromGlass » Mon Oct 19, 2020 1:23 pm

This might make your head explode but -
I’m using one of the original 1202s for my monster guitar sound pedal f/x box centralizer. On track 1 I’m using the half normal output (on the top end of the mixer) to split the signal so I can send it directly to other effects boxes before bringing those back in on the other channels. Might the half normal scenario help you?
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Re: Mackie 1202 no aux sends on ALT Output.

Postby Hugh Robjohns » Mon Oct 19, 2020 1:31 pm

Arpangel wrote:... if all four outputs enabled me to acces the sends all would be fine...

Yes... but we have already clearly established the the Mackie 1202 is not capable of doing what you require.... unless you feel like delving inside and disabling the Aux mute function*

All I’m missing is being able to use both effects on both sends...

All you are missing is a mixer that does what you need! Which is why I was suggesting considering alternative forms of compact mixer.

Again, main problem, is space

Then you either need to re-prioritise, or compromise....

*Modding the Mackie shouldn't actually be that difficult to a competent tech, although it would be fiddly.

The Mute/Alt switch on each channel has four changeover contacts: one for the LED, two for the left/right pan output routing, and one for the Aux 2 mute.

So all you'd need to do is identify the specific aux c/o section of the switch (easily done with a scope or audio sniffer probe), short between the incoming Aux line and switch wiper contacts (so it's permanently on), and then cut the track to the other switch contact that normally goes to ground (to prevent the muting).

Rinse and repeat for all input channels.
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Re: Mackie 1202 no aux sends on ALT Output.

Postby blinddrew » Mon Oct 19, 2020 1:47 pm

CUT TO:
Arpangel Towers, Monday morning. Arpangel's Partner (AP) is reading the paper when she stops and looks over the top of her glasses.

AP: Tony, isn't it time you asked that nice Mr Robjohns another question about mixers? You know he gets lonely when he doesn't have anyone to talk to.
Tony: But I've asked all the questions! I've even managed to let them talk me round to a digital mixer so that they can all sleep tight feeling that they've set the world right.
AP: Didn't you say you have a sub-mixer as well?
Tony: Yes of course! I'll come up with something fiendishly complicated to try and do that's not supposed to work. That should keep him happy for a bit.

;)
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Re: Mackie 1202 no aux sends on ALT Output.

Postby ManFromGlass » Mon Oct 19, 2020 1:51 pm

:lol:
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Re: Mackie 1202 no aux sends on ALT Output.

Postby Hugh Robjohns » Mon Oct 19, 2020 1:52 pm

:bouncy: :bouncy: :bouncy: :think: :crazy:
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