SOUND ON SOUND

[jthzp9]

Here is a sample of what I'm hearing. I recorded at roughly -18dbfs. Perhaps it is absolutely correct, I'm just gain staging too hot on the scarlett. It sounded much better run a little less hot.

https://soundcloud.com/user-500797446/i ... p-shootout

Here is a normalized version of the same clips:

https://soundcloud.com/user-500797446/i ... normalized



List of the clips:
Clip 1: interface
Clip 2: mixer to interface
clip 3: art voice channel to interface.

Checked only on tracking headphone, so might be missing some subtlety, but I hear no significant difference at all between the first two. The third has a litte more room, did you move the mic or had some compression going on in the channel strip?

No, the channel strip has the compressor off and the eq bypassed. The only thing active is the input and output gain. It does have a variable impedance knob which is set to 3k which would be the same for the Yamaha and the Scarlett 18i8. The mic was not moved, just plugged into the different inputs. Same mic, guitar, cables, sat in the exact same place.

[CS70]

No, the channel strip has the compressor off and the eq bypassed. The only thing active is the input and output gain. It does have a variable impedance knob which is set to 3k which would be the same for the Yamaha and the Scarlett 18i8. The mic was not moved, just plugged into the different inputs. Same mic, guitar, cables, sat in the exact same place.

Then I guess the channel strip preamp is rigged to be colored - maybe a design made on purpose to sound that way..

[jthzp9]

Here is another shootout of the 3. Same order for those of you who listened previously. If you want a blind test, the answers will be posted below so you can listen first without bias.

https://soundcloud.com/user-500797446/f ... shootout-2

I tried to optimize the gain structure so that they sounded the best to me in my headphones prior to tracking. Each piece of hardware has no eq or compression applied. The outboard gear is being run into the line inputs of the focusrite 18i8 so no preamp coloration from the AI itself for the outboard gear.






Results:
clip 1: Focusrite 18i8 direct
Clip 2: Art Voice Channel to Focusrite 18i8
Clip 3: Yamaha mixer to Focusrite 18i8

[jthzp9]

I noticed the mixer was a bit hotter than the other two so I tried to bring the average level as close as I could to one another. Here is one more listen.

https://soundcloud.com/user-500797446/f ... hootout-21

[Arpangel]

I've just listened on my monitors and, to me, any one of the three would get the job done, the differences are subtle and IMHO unimportant. Differences in performance and how the track was mixed would overshadow any differences in the recorded sound.

I think the fact that there is no significant difference, or glaring technical issue, means that it’s just very subtle colourations in the different signal chains, which is to be expected, if at all noticeable.
In which case, keep calm and keep recording!

:thumbup: :D

[CS70]

I listened "blind" - 1 and 3 were indistinguishable to me, 2 was slightly different - less than in the first example you posted, and not dramatically different, probably would go totally unnoticed in a mix with just a little EQ.

2 being the Art, it seems that indeed that box is a bit colored.

[jthzp9]

I’m completely agree with everyone’s assessment. After getting a bit better gain staging I agree that there is little to no difference in the different takes.

The only thing I notice now is the noise floor. Usually this is most noticeable with DI instruments. I wonder if that would be remedied with a better audio interface or if you just live with it. Specifically, I was looking at the RME October xtc 8 channel audio interface vs an 8 channel universal audio.

All in all though, I think I learned that proper gain staging can get you a long way! Thank you for your help everyone!!

[CS70]

I’m completely agree with everyone’s assessment. After getting a bit better gain staging I agree that there is little to no difference in the different takes.

The only thing I notice now is the noise floor. Usually this is most noticeable with DI instruments. I wonder if that would be remedied with a better audio interface or if you just live with it. Specifically, I was looking at the RME October xtc 8 channel audio interface vs an 8 channel universal audio.

All in all though, I think I learned that proper gain staging can get you a long way! Thank you for your help everyone!!

Cool you found out! It's the nice thing of a forum like this.

As for the noise floor, I would expect the mixer or the channel strip would be, in general, the worse in that respect (i.e. add more noise, if anything because the signal has to go thru a longer signal path and pass thru more components). Which one would "win" depends really on the quality - a well maintained SSL can be less noisy than a cheap channel strip, and a great channel strip can be less noisy than a cheap mixer.

As of interfaces.. different interface preamps will have different noise and distortion properties of course, but modern kit in general is so good that the ambient noise usually matters way more... and expecially so when recording a distorted guitar amp, where all the significant noise would come from pushing the amplifier's preamp and power amp stages (real or software)?

DI-ing a signal means bringing it down to mic level and then re-amplifying it again... even using great and clean preamplifiers I suspect in most cases the S/N ratio will suffer a little bit exactly because of that.

[Sam Spoons]

It's important, too, to find what the source of the noise is. The noise floor of a half decent interface is likely to be lower than the noise the guitar amp you are miking generates, improving the signal path between the mic and the computer will make no difference to this, or to the ambient noise in the room being picked up by the mic.