You are here

Probably going to purchase the Soudcraft Signature 22MTK, any warnings/suggestions?

All about the tools and techniques involved in capturing sound, in the studio or on location.

Re: Probably going to purchase the Soudcraft Signature 22MTK, any warnings/suggestions?

Postby Arpangel » Tue Oct 27, 2020 4:25 pm

resistorman wrote:I wasn’t specifically recommending the Model 12, just that it sounds good and the drivers work well. There are other mixers in the range. As I mentioned earlier, my experience with the Soundcraft Windows drivers has been not great and that the OP should research how well the MTK works with his hardware configuration. It may work fine if the OP’ has an Intel machine, I’m running a 2nd gen AMD Ryzen. Also, the drivers may have been updated. Warnings were asked for.

All good stuff regarding the Tascam, I’d be looking at that if sound quality alone was an issue, love their stuff, if it has enough inputs for him then go for it, there are really different desks, regarding applications, I’d be using the Tascam if a computer "wasn’t" the heart of my system.
User avatar
Arpangel
Jedi Poster
Posts: 5894
Joined: Sat Jul 12, 2003 12:00 am

Re: Probably going to purchase the Soudcraft Signature 22MTK, any warnings/suggestions?

Postby seriousnewbie » Sun Nov 08, 2020 12:48 am

Mike Stranks wrote:Just a thought... and I've done no qualitative research...

Would the Zoom Livetraks be contenders in this market... or the Tascam equivalent?

Jus' wonderin'.... :)

Hello, I am really sorry for being so late with my response, I don't even know if it is worth it for me to respond anymore, but I will anyway :D . Ill give you my opinions on both mixers that you suggested.

The Tascam is a great option that I have seriously and thoughtfully looked into. In fact, for a while I was doing research on the Tascam Model 24 (which is what I will be using for this example) VS the Soundcraft signature 22 MTK. I chose the Soundcraft signature 22 MTK for a couple reasons, firstly being that the EQ is better on the Soundcraft, I don't think anyone necessarily denies that. Also, the last 2 (stereo) channels on the Tascam literally have no eq, which would pretty much bring down my analog inputs down to 20, less than the Soundcraft Signature 22 MTK. Also, all of the other stereo channels only have a 3 band eq, which IMO is pretty dumb for them to do :headbang:. Also, the soundcraft signature has more aux channels (3-5). You can also have 2 fx channels on the Soundcraft, but then you would only have 3 aux's, which is still good for many.

Now for anybody reading this who is considering the Soundcraft Signature 22 MTK, Listen up, because many people don't know this, but if those other reasons haven't made you want to choose the Soundcraft yet, this will. It can separate each channel into a different track in OBS STUDIO, that's huge for anybody doing live performances online and for streamers in general. From what I have heard, the Tascam crashes many people's OBS. Not to mention the Tascam actually costs $100 MORE than the Soundcraft, the only reason I could see that is because there is compressors on the board, which I don't really think is worth it, but it may be.

Now here are some reasons why I think somebody would rather choose the Tascam over the Soundcraft. The Tascam has a graphic EQ, now to this, I simply argue that you won't need it if you get the Soundcraft because the eq on each channel will allow you to pretty much pinpoint anywhere you want a sound to go in a song. Also, the Soundcraft has 2 inserts, this one stood on my shoulder for a while. Honestly, I have made myself realize that in most cases, you really don't need them, as most hardware you would use them with can just be used ITB. Even besides that, if you aren't going ITB, than you can just use the hardware that you would use the inserts with pre-mixer, because the I/O wouldn't really be necessary anyway (not sure if that was the right terminology, sorry if it wasn't). Also, the Soundcraft doesn't have a built in compressor, that might bother some people, but it doesn't bother me. if it does, there are many free vst compressors. If that doesn't work, than I guess you either have to buy hardware compressors if you wanted the Soundcraft SIgnature 22 MTK. Another reason, the Tascam is more visually appealing to most people, and to that I say, "ok". I am not sure if there are any other reasons that I can think of atm. So ya, that is why I would probably choose the Soundcraft over the Tascam.

Now the Zoom Livetrack just has way too many of the things I don't need/want, and doesn't have too many of the things I really want/need. TBH you can probably figure those things out if you really read all of the things that I just typed out with the comparison of the Soundcraft Signature 22 MTK and the Tascam Model 24.

Thank you for taking the time to read this. I really hope that this can help somebody sometime.
seriousnewbie
Poster
Posts: 42
Joined: Thu Sep 03, 2020 7:20 pm

Re: Probably going to purchase the Soudcraft Signature 22MTK, any warnings/suggestions?

Postby DarthPaul » Sun Nov 08, 2020 4:59 pm

I bought a Signature 22MTK for exactly the reasons you state: it has a good quality audio interface for your DAW and plenty of inputs, my main reason for choosing it. The usb multiple channel audio interface means that you can return tracks from your DAW to the channels and mix in analogue if you want the tactile feel of a hardware mixer, and the EQ and Lexicon effects are good.

Sound quality is superb, very low noise, very versatile. I'm happy with it. I find that mixing with faders rather than a mouse is rewarding.

The only improvements I would suggest are that it could do with a few stereo effects return inputs - it has several switchable pre/post fader aux sends yet you have to use input channels to bring external effects back into the mixer. Also some insert points for inline effects would have been useful, as would a number of channel compressors.

It would also have benefitted from a monitor output section. You have to feed your monitors from the main outputs or group outputs with no switching between them and the only volume controls to the monitors are your main or group faders.

In practice it's perfectly usable and fun to use, the audio interface is the key to its appeal for me, but those few additions would have made it a far more user-friendly mixer, albeit at a higher price.

Nevertheless, I heartily recommend the Signature 22 MTK as a mixer and audio interface if you have a number of hardware instruments and effects that need plenty of inputs.
DarthPaul
Poster
Posts: 24
Joined: Thu Nov 22, 2018 6:05 pm

Re: Probably going to purchase the Soudcraft Signature 22MTK, any warnings/suggestions?

Postby Sam Spoons » Sun Nov 08, 2020 5:34 pm

DarthPaul wrote:The only improvements I would suggest are that it could do with a few stereo effects return inputs - it has several switchable pre/post fader aux sends yet you have to use input channels to bring external effects back into the mixer.

The stereo inputs are commonly used as fx returns, having stereo channels with eq and sends makes them significantly more versatile than basic stereo returns. More of either would up the price though as would adding any other features.
User avatar
Sam Spoons
Jedi Poster
Posts: 13997
Joined: Thu Jan 23, 2003 1:00 am
Location: Manchester UK
Finally taking this recording lark seriously (and recording my Gypsy Jazz CD)........

Re: Probably going to purchase the Soudcraft Signature 22MTK, any warnings/suggestions?

Postby OneWorld » Sun Nov 08, 2020 7:16 pm

I am liking the look of the Signature 22MTK and did a search and up at the top of the list was Black Friday Sale price at Amazon - £956
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Soundcraft-Sig ... B01N7RF38G

The price at Thomann - £699! and yes, includes VAT - https://www.thomann.de/gb/soundcraft_si ... _22mtk.htm

Or am I looking at two different things?
OneWorld
Frequent Poster (Level2)
Posts: 2795
Joined: Tue Apr 07, 2009 12:00 am

Re: Probably going to purchase the Soudcraft Signature 22MTK, any warnings/suggestions?

Postby DarthPaul » Mon Nov 09, 2020 1:17 am

OneWorld wrote:
Or am I looking at two different things?

No , that's the same mixer at two wildly different prices!

Go for the Thomann one! Great price!
DarthPaul
Poster
Posts: 24
Joined: Thu Nov 22, 2018 6:05 pm

Re: Probably going to purchase the Soudcraft Signature 22MTK, any warnings/suggestions?

Postby DarthPaul » Mon Nov 09, 2020 1:22 am

Sam Spoons wrote:
The stereo inputs are commonly used as fx returns, having stereo channels with eq and sends makes them significantly more versatile than basic stereo returns. More of either would up the price though as would adding any other features.

Well, yes, I kind-of agree with you, Sam, thats how i use mine. I said it would be more expensive to include the things i mentioned, but many hardware instruments are stereo and those channels are ideal for them too. I still think there's a place for straightforward stereo effects returns.

The S22MTK is nevertheless excellent value and it does have plenty of inputs!
DarthPaul
Poster
Posts: 24
Joined: Thu Nov 22, 2018 6:05 pm

Re: Probably going to purchase the Soudcraft Signature 22MTK, any warnings/suggestions?

Postby Arpangel » Mon Nov 09, 2020 8:23 am

DarthPaul wrote:
The only improvements I would suggest are that it could do with a few stereo effects return inputs - it has several switchable pre/post fader aux sends yet you have to use input channels to bring external effects back into the mixer. Also some insert points for inline effects would have been useful, as would a number of channel compressors.

It would also have benefitted from a monitor output section. You have to feed your monitors from the main outputs or group outputs with no switching between them and the only volume controls to the monitors are your main or group faders.

In practice it's perfectly usable and fun to use, the audio interface is the key to its appeal for me, but those few additions would have made it a far more user-friendly mixer, albeit at a higher price.

Nevertheless, I heartily recommend the Signature 22 MTK as a mixer and audio interface if you have a number of hardware instruments and effects that need plenty of inputs.

The lack of returns, no control room output, no inserts, these were a deal breaker for me.
I’d recommend getting a multi-channel interface, and pair that with a a more comprehensive mixer, there’s the Soundcraft FX16, or the Yamaha MG20XU, with comps and 8 stereo 8 mono inputs, the 22 MTK is almost perfect, great sound, but the compromises would make it really annoying for me, it’s meant to be used with a DAW at the heart of its operations, but if you’re heavily into hardware outboard, it’s not really a good idea IMO.
User avatar
Arpangel
Jedi Poster
Posts: 5894
Joined: Sat Jul 12, 2003 12:00 am

Re: Probably going to purchase the Soudcraft Signature 22MTK, any warnings/suggestions?

Postby DarthPaul » Mon Nov 09, 2020 11:06 am

Arpangel wrote:The lack of returns, no control room output, no inserts, these were a deal breaker for me.
I’d recommend getting a multi-channel interface, and pair that with a a more comprehensive mixer, there’s the Soundcraft FX16, or the Yamaha MG20XU, with comps and 8 stereo 8 mono inputs, the 22 MTK is almost perfect, great sound, but the compromises would make it really annoying for me, it’s meant to be used with a DAW at the heart of its operations, but if you’re heavily into hardware outboard, it’s not really a good idea IMO.

I absolutely see your point, Arpangel, the compromises need to be worked around. They are certainly worth weighing up when deciding whether to buy. On a budget, the S22MTK gives a mixer and audio interface at a good price. I got mine six months old for £450 on ebay and its serving me well, although I have a lot of outboard hardware.

But yes, you're right, buyers need to consider the omissions and whether they can live with them.
DarthPaul
Poster
Posts: 24
Joined: Thu Nov 22, 2018 6:05 pm

Re: Probably going to purchase the Soudcraft Signature 22MTK, any warnings/suggestions?

Postby Arpangel » Mon Nov 09, 2020 11:21 am

DarthPaul wrote:
Arpangel wrote:The lack of returns, no control room output, no inserts, these were a deal breaker for me.
I’d recommend getting a multi-channel interface, and pair that with a a more comprehensive mixer, there’s the Soundcraft FX16, or the Yamaha MG20XU, with comps and 8 stereo 8 mono inputs, the 22 MTK is almost perfect, great sound, but the compromises would make it really annoying for me, it’s meant to be used with a DAW at the heart of its operations, but if you’re heavily into hardware outboard, it’s not really a good idea IMO.

I absolutely see your point, Arpangel, the compromises need to be worked around. They are certainly worth weighing up when deciding whether to buy. On a budget, the S22MTK gives a mixer and audio interface at a good price. I got mine six months old for £450 on ebay and its serving me well. But yes, you're right, buyersneed to consider the omissions and whether they can live with them.

Very good price there, and I'm glad it’s working out for you.
I like the overall sound, and the EQ is the best in its price range IMO.
I decided on a Yamaha MG20XU, and a Behringer 1820 interface with an expander, but unlike you, I already had the Behringers!
I used to use Mackie, and the 1604 has amazing routing and I/O but the sound, esspecially the EQ isn’t that good IMO, so I never used it.
User avatar
Arpangel
Jedi Poster
Posts: 5894
Joined: Sat Jul 12, 2003 12:00 am

Re: Probably going to purchase the Soudcraft Signature 22MTK, any warnings/suggestions?

Postby Sam Spoons » Mon Nov 09, 2020 11:25 am

DarthPaul wrote:
Sam Spoons wrote:
The stereo inputs are commonly used as fx returns, having stereo channels with eq and sends makes them significantly more versatile than basic stereo returns. More of either would up the price though as would adding any other features.

Well, yes, I kind-of agree with you, Sam, thats how i use mine. I said it would be more expensive to include the things i mentioned, but many hardware instruments are stereo and those channels are ideal for them too. I still think there's a place for straightforward stereo effects returns.

The S22MTK is nevertheless excellent value and it does have plenty of inputs!

It is indeed and I like Soundcraft analogue too.

As you say, to add any feature costs money and will up the price, the designers have to decide what features offer the best value to the intended end user, as we're all different we are bound to end up with some unused features to get the ones we do need. Maybe we need to be looking at it from the opposite perspective and asking which superfluous features we can accept paying for to achieve the feature set we need?

* I keep nearly buying a Behringer X-Touch as a remote for my X32 Rack or XR-12 for live use but the bank of DAW control/transport buttons keeps putting me off...
User avatar
Sam Spoons
Jedi Poster
Posts: 13997
Joined: Thu Jan 23, 2003 1:00 am
Location: Manchester UK
Finally taking this recording lark seriously (and recording my Gypsy Jazz CD)........

Re: Probably going to purchase the Soudcraft Signature 22MTK, any warnings/suggestions?

Postby Arpangel » Mon Nov 09, 2020 12:18 pm

Sam Spoons wrote:Maybe we need to be looking at it from the opposite perspective and asking which superfluous features we can accept paying for to achieve the feature set we need?

* I keep nearly buying a Behringer X-Touch as a remote for my X32 Rack or XR-12 for live use but the bank of DAW control/transport buttons keeps putting me off...

That’s a good angle Sam, I stopped looking at that Korg mixer simply because it had too much I wouldn’t use, and don’t forget, you’re paying for all that stuff.
For instance, I’ve got quite a bit of outboard, so mixers with effects are a bit pointless.
I’d love to design my own mixer, as there never seems to be anything that completely fits the bill, it’s always a compromise.

;)

24 channels
6 Aux sends
4 returns
Balanced inserts
8 groups
Master and control room outputs.
4 band fixed EQ
No effects
No compressors.
User avatar
Arpangel
Jedi Poster
Posts: 5894
Joined: Sat Jul 12, 2003 12:00 am

Re: Probably going to purchase the Soudcraft Signature 22MTK, any warnings/suggestions?

Postby ken long » Mon Nov 09, 2020 12:27 pm

Looks like a good desk but why no insert points?
User avatar
ken long
Frequent Poster (Level2)
Posts: 3390
Joined: Mon Jan 21, 2008 1:00 am
Location: Somers Town
I'm All Ears.

Re: Probably going to purchase the Soudcraft Signature 22MTK, any warnings/suggestions?

Postby Arpangel » Mon Nov 09, 2020 12:54 pm

ken long wrote:Looks like a good desk but why no insert points?

I think this desk is aimed at those who work primarily in the box, but want some analogue feel and flavour, although I must admit, no control room out is a bit of a pain, I could say you’ll have to use your interface to do that, but hang on! this is an interface!
It’s a shame really, as I’d have bought one, if it wasn’t for the things mentioned.
I think they assume you’ll be using software comps and EQ etc, regarding the sends.
User avatar
Arpangel
Jedi Poster
Posts: 5894
Joined: Sat Jul 12, 2003 12:00 am

Re: Probably going to purchase the Soudcraft Signature 22MTK, any warnings/suggestions?

Postby DarthPaul » Mon Nov 09, 2020 1:12 pm

It has five sends, two of which also feed the on board Lexicon effects as well as having output jacks, but no effects returns unless you use channels as i do. Seems odd.
DarthPaul
Poster
Posts: 24
Joined: Thu Nov 22, 2018 6:05 pm

PreviousNext