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Capstan Dirty after almost every playback - Tascam TSR-8.

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Re: Capstan Dirty after almost every playback - Tascam TSR-8.

PostPosted: Thu Nov 26, 2020 10:25 am
by ken long
Everything on this thread is speculation until you can try a different batch/brand of tape. Do that first then report back.

Re: Capstan Dirty after almost every playback - Tascam TSR-8.

PostPosted: Thu Nov 26, 2020 10:25 am
by Arpangel
bruceyripper wrote:So the picture above is the dirt that comes off.

As I said, it only requires 2 wipes and then it's clean again, BUT, this is happening after EACH play through, which I would presume is not normal.

I think the tension explanation seems to be on point so far. Although I have slacked the tension and now it doesn't happen after every single play back, but is still happening after 3 play backs.

I know cleaning is all part and parcel of reel to reel, but everything I've heard and read states cleaning is only required, beginning/end and every 2 hours or so in the session, NOT, after each play back or indeed after 2 or 3 playbacks, which I believe is not normal and means something is up. Right?
:think:

These look very clean to me, it depends on the tape condition, type, amount of use, FFW/RW how often you do those things, I’ve owned Tascams and only used to clean them once before a session, that was about it, but it’s a case of clean when you need to.
Is there any really bad degradation in quality because of this? If not, I wouldn’t worry about it. Drop-outs can be caused by all sorts of things, the heads look in good shape on your machine, the brand of tape might be an issue, how long it’s been on the shelf, does it suite your machine, have you lined-up your machine for this tape?
The joys of analogue....

:)

Re: Capstan Dirty after almost every playback - Tascam TSR-8.

PostPosted: Thu Nov 26, 2020 1:49 pm
by bruceyripper
Good advise that.

I have just looked up the right tape for this machine which is the SM911.

My tape is not that, so I am ordering this new tape. Will try it out and get back.

Re: Capstan Dirty after almost every playback - Tascam TSR-8.

PostPosted: Thu Nov 26, 2020 1:57 pm
by bruceyripper
Oh God...

Just checked the tape I'm using and it is this;
https://www.thomann.de/gb/rtm_sm911_1_2 ... ancake.htm

Which by my knowledge IS a SM911.

So I am using the right tape according to this.

The plot thickens.. :cry:

Re: Capstan Dirty after almost every playback - Tascam TSR-8.

PostPosted: Thu Nov 26, 2020 2:43 pm
by Sam Spoons
The 'correct' tape will depend on what tape the machine was last lined up for which may be a different brand/spec of tape to the 'recommended' type (and may well be out of spec anyway unless it's been lined up recently). Either way it won't be that which is causing the oxide shedding issue but a mechanical problem, either something in the tape path or the condition of the tape itself.

Did we ascertain whether the oxide is depositing on the capstan or the fixed cylindrical guide next to the erase head?

Re: Capstan Dirty after almost every playback - Tascam TSR-8.

PostPosted: Thu Nov 26, 2020 2:49 pm
by bruceyripper
JUST the capstan.

No other residue on any of the other components.

Re: Capstan Dirty after almost every playback - Tascam TSR-8.

PostPosted: Thu Nov 26, 2020 3:00 pm
by Sam Spoons
The suggestion to try a different brand of tape is because some tape formulations have, in the past, been more prone to shedding oxide than others, a different brand will most likely use a different formulation so, hopefully, should show whether the issue is with the tape or with the machine.

Re: Capstan Dirty after almost every playback - Tascam TSR-8.

PostPosted: Fri Nov 27, 2020 10:55 am
by Arpangel
Sam Spoons wrote:The 'correct' tape will depend on what tape the machine was last lined up for which may be a different brand/spec of tape to the 'recommended' type (and may well be out of spec anyway unless it's been lined up recently). Either way it won't be that which is causing the oxide shedding issue but a mechanical problem, either something in the tape path or the condition of the tape itself.

Did we ascertain whether the oxide is depositing on the capstan or the fixed cylindrical guide next to the erase head?

Sam is right, depends on the line-up, if it’s ever been done, there isn’t really a "correct" tape for any machine, it’s what you prefer, I always preferred Scotch 226, as it had a flatter response to me, but it’s up to individual taste. Some brands do shed oxide more than others though.
ATR Magnetics are an alternative brand, you might try that, I didn’t realise, there isn’t much about these days, I haven’t owned a RTR for years. It’s amazing, the cost, £85 a reel for about 30 mins recording time!

:o

Re: Capstan Dirty after almost every playback - Tascam TSR-8.

PostPosted: Sat Nov 28, 2020 8:44 am
by bruceyripper
I know but the recording quality has something special to it that I've never found with digital.
Plus I like working with my hands and body.

Little update, I tried an old tape I had which was the same make and this hasn't dirtied the capstan as much. Did about an hour mixing last last and cleaned at the end of the session with minimal dirt coming off, I'd say normal, hardly any.

Sooooo.....

Reckon it is just this particular tape then? Someone on here said about storage in the Wearhouse etc.

Should I contact the manufacture? I feel like now I know there must be something wrong with that new tape.

Re: Capstan Dirty after almost every playback - Tascam TSR-8.

PostPosted: Sat Nov 28, 2020 9:34 am
by Tim Gillett
Sometimes tapes are manufactured slightly narrow or wide of the nominal 1/2" tolerance limits. The too wide the tape can foul on the tapes guides. Perhaps that is going on here.

If so you should see more tape muck closer to the edges (top and bottom) of the tape path. On your machine this should normally only happen at the entry and exit guides at each end of the headblock. Possibly also on the large guide which substitutes for the missing head but only if the guide now has a tape sized groove worn in it.

Re: Capstan Dirty after almost every playback - Tascam TSR-8.

PostPosted: Mon Nov 30, 2020 2:18 pm
by ken long
Tim Gillett wrote:Sometimes tapes are manufactured slightly narrow or wide of the nominal 1/2" tolerance limits. The too wide the tape can foul on the tapes guides. Perhaps that is going on here.

Thought that too but that would come off as swarf. Doesn't look like swarf in his picture.

Re: Capstan Dirty after almost every playback - Tascam TSR-8.

PostPosted: Mon Nov 30, 2020 10:03 pm
by bruceyripper
Hey ya'll

Solved it. Was the the tape, the guy who serviced it gave me a new tape and so far no problems at all, spent 4 hours recording, no problems.

Now.......

What should I say to the place i have bought these tapes from? I can't believe they have caused all this hassle, and they are expensive and advertised as new. Really bad craic that isn't it.

Re: Capstan Dirty after almost every playback - Tascam TSR-8.

PostPosted: Mon Nov 30, 2020 11:58 pm
by James Perrett
Might be worth getting in touch with RTM themselves as they need to know if there are problems like this. While the RTM formulas were originally created by BASF, as I understand it, RTM are part of Pyral and Pyral tapes in the past haven't always been good. BASF tapes were generally consistent and have lasted well. I hope RTM are sticking to the BASF formula rather than trying to incorporate production techniques from the old Pyral days.

Re: Capstan Dirty after almost every playback - Tascam TSR-8.

PostPosted: Tue Dec 01, 2020 9:37 am
by ken long
bruceyripper wrote:
Was the the tape

Bingo.

What should I say to the place i have bought these tapes from? I can't believe they have caused all this hassle, and they are expensive and advertised as new. Really bad craic that isn't it.

Just get a refund or get them to replace it with a different batch. The batch number might be on the leader (if there is one) or on the back of the tape. These things happen.

Re: Capstan Dirty after almost every playback - Tascam TSR-8.

PostPosted: Tue Dec 01, 2020 11:33 am
by blinddrew
Give the supplier a call, they may be genuinely grateful for the information if it helps prevent similar customer problems from the same batch.