SOUND ON SOUND

[N i g e l]

What wouldn't work? The synth doesn't have any analogue or digital outs?

Sound card + USB synth interface, effectly the 2 sound cards at once problem.

The synth has basic analogue stereo in & out but the other channels are only accessed over USB.

But yeah swapping is easy in Cakewalk so no big deal, it's no more work than putting up a different microphone for a regular instrument.

true if its once per session but doing it repeatedly every 5 minutes for sound design is a chore.

Its a situation thats only going to get worse as more synths become USB audio enabled.

[CS70]

Sound card + USB synth interface, effectly the 2 sound cards at once problem.

Sure, that's exactly what I wrote for the OP.

The synth has basic analogue stereo in & out but the other channels are only accessed over USB.

Not enough into synths to know that there are many channels. Thought you got a sound and that was it :D But yeah if the analogue or digital outs don't get you what you need, game over.

true if its once per session but doing it repeatedly every 5 minutes for sound design is a chore.

Its a situation thats only going to get worse as more synths become USB audio enabled.

Granted.. though I'd think these synths will be oriented towards the more entry level market? "Proper" synths would likely have the digital/analogue outs that are needed to extract all the sounds? I hope! It would be like making a USB guitar with only one pickup to USB! :D

[ef37a]

Not too far OT perhaps?

My son has a USB microphone and it would be very useful for him to have a small device that took a USB source such as that mic and put out audio. He presently does the same thing by using an old XP laptop which then feeds a mixer.

Surely there is a more elegant solution?

Dave.

[CS70]

Not too far OT perhaps?

My son has a USB microphone and it would be very useful for him to have a small device that took a USB source such as that mic and put out audio. He presently does the same thing by using an old XP laptop which then feeds a mixer.

Surely there is a more elegant solution?

Dave.

There are many "24 bit usb to jack" solutions, if you just google that you'll find.

It's a bit fun however, the analogue signal get thru the AD converter in the mic, then send to the jack, which converts it back to analogue, then back into the AD converter of the interface.. No really big deal for a vocal line but it's kind full circle. :lol:

[ef37a]

Not too far OT perhaps?

My son has a USB microphone and it would be very useful for him to have a small device that took a USB source such as that mic and put out audio. He presently does the same thing by using an old XP laptop which then feeds a mixer.

Surely there is a more elegant solution?

Dave.

There are many "24 bit usb to jack" solutions, if you just google that you'll find.

It's a bit fun however, the analogue signal get thru the AD converter in the mic, then send to the jack, which converts it back to analogue, then back into the AD converter of the interface.. No really big deal for a vocal line but it's kind full circle. :lol:

Er? No, AFAICT all those devices use a USB 'A' male cable connector when it would need to be an A female as on a PC. Most USB mics are also 16 bit as well.

Since such a box would need I think to be 'part pc' and use USB audio drivers maybe not commercially practical?

As for the "round the houses" issue? If you only have two mics and one is USB and you want to get both into a USB mixer there is no other choice.

Dave.

[Tomás Mulcahy]

Dunno why there's such a long thread. The answer was already given. The solution is software, not hardware.

An aggregate device can be set up. Mac or PC. It's native to Mac OS X.

This should get you started:
https://www.sweetwater.com/sweetcare/ar ... c-and-mac/

I'd love to know how it works out on a PC. I've used it on a Mac to make surround outputs with several cheap devices. The Mac sometimes forgets which outputs are assigned. I do too :lol:

As James pointed out, there may be issues on Windows with sample rates. Seems to be fine on a Mac, I can't hear a change in quality when the OS is re-sampling on the fly.

As for USB to jack... ya, a computer is needed to talk to the USB. Not simply a DAC.

[CS70]

Er? No, AFAICT all those devices use a USB 'A' male cable connector when it would need to be an A female as on a PC. Most USB mics are also 16 bit as well.

You're right, mixed up with the other way around. You could make one with say a Raspberry PI, but it's probably simply better to get a regular microphone of the same quality instead.

[CS70]

An aggregate device can be set up. Mac or PC. It's native to Mac OS X.

Eh. The issue is that there is no such thing on Windows.

And even in Mac OS, I guess that without hardware clocking (as it would be on USB keyboard) there would be clock drift between the various interfaces and probably some software compensation..

[N i g e l]

Granted.. though I'd think these synths will be oriented towards the more entry level market? "Proper" synths ......

as per the YAMAHA flagship Montage 32,000 NOK/ £2800 ? The technology has now trickled down to my model which is the MODX :)

The synth works. It integrates with a PC. The problem arises when another soundcard or USB Synth [or 3..] is present.

Its a PC software problem, which will eventually be fixed, given time.

[James Perrett]

Its a PC software problem, which will eventually be fixed, given time.

Don't hold your breath - it is a long standing problem with ASIO drivers. The ASIO technology is now ultimately owned by Yamaha so, if they haven't felt the need to fix the issue to make it easier to use their keyboards, I doubt that it will ever be fixed.

[CS70]

Granted.. though I'd think these synths will be oriented towards the more entry level market? "Proper" synths ......

as per the YAMAHA flagship Montage 32,000 NOK/ £2800 ? The technology has now trickled down to my model which is the MODX :)

I know as much of synths as I know of gardening but I hope that the flagship has _also_ digital and analogue outputs for everything that it outputs?

It'd be like a guitar with only USB output.. :D

[ef37a]

""It'd be like a guitar with only USB output."

Well, there are microphones like that CS! AFAIK most synths that have a USB port only transmit MIDI and data dumps? Only the more upmarket models output 'audio' on USB as well. OP has not I think given the model of his synth but if it is sufficiently upmarket to have USB audio (and it may be a full blown interface to boot?) it is likely to have a S/PDIF output? Pretty sure the 18i20 will have S/PDIF in or at least able to configure an ADAT port for same?

If JUST USB the only solution I can see is to do what my son did, commandeer an old laptop as the converter. If he wants better than the laptop sound card cheaply the Behringer UCA 202 is not at all bad and gives a spare headphone output.

Dave

[CS70]

""It'd be like a guitar with only USB output."

Well, there are microphones like that CS! AFAIK most synths that have a USB port only transmit MIDI and data dumps? Only the more upmarket models output 'audio' on USB as well. OP has not I think given the model of his synth but if it is sufficiently upmarket to have USB audio (and it may be a full blown interface to boot?) it is likely to have a S/PDIF output? Pretty sure the 18i20 will have S/PDIF in or at least able to configure an ADAT port for same?

If JUST USB the only solution I can see is to do what my son did, commandeer an old laptop as the converter. If he wants better than the laptop sound card cheaply the Behringer UCA 202 is not at all bad and gives a spare headphone output.

Dave

I think the conversation threaded off the OP and we are discussing Nigel's issue on getting "other channels" into the DAW from his synth.

The synth has basic analogue stereo in & out but the other channels are only accessed over USB.

I too would think that output-over-USB-only would be something limited to entry-level models (which is what I stated).

But Nigel, who certainly knows more about synths than I (by way of actually using some :D) seemed to imply that even higher-end synths may present certain information expecting to be the unique computer interface and not working with other regular digital audio/midi interfaces. Hence my surprised metaphor.

And yeah using a different computer as a converter would definitely do.

[ef37a]

Ok, so this med ridden, one eyed old valve jockey has lost his way! OK but I still think audio via USB is NOT usually associated with lower end synths? I too know pretty much BA about them but intuitively I reason that out putting MIDI data is pretty simple, probably only USB 1.1 speed? To send audio as well needs a converter and goodness knows what else. Pretty obviously it is cheaper to just provide USB MIDI than a couple of DIN ports? Audio as well would be much more expensive.

Dave.

[N i g e l]

Ive not explained this correctly, let me try again !

The synth has upto 16 channels each with a synth patch/sound. The sounds can be layered & split across the keyboard as required and are then mixed together, vol, pan, eq, FX etc and output in stereo analogue. Thats reasonably normal.

What the USB audio gives access to, is the unmixed individual channels, so that you can add your own Fx in your DAW (for example).