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Is there an audio interface with (also) usb AUDIO inputs?

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Is there an audio interface with (also) usb AUDIO inputs?

PostPosted: Sat Jan 16, 2021 6:13 pm
by Dniss
Hi all,

I'm asking because many synthesizers nowadays often also offers USB audio out and with Cakewalk I can only use one audio USB driver at the time it would seem. And it's being used by my Focusrite Scarlett.

Cheers

Re: Is there an audio interface with (also) usb AUDIO inputs?

PostPosted: Sat Jan 16, 2021 6:22 pm
by CS70
The limitation is not in Cakewalk, it'd be the same with any other DAW.
The synth "audio over USB" simply means that Windows sees the synth as a different interface (one that only happens to interface with the keyboard sound generation circuitry), and you can't use multiple interfaces at the same time to pass audio.

The solution is to use the analogue or digital outs of the synth and pass thru the interface.

You may need an interface with more input channels, if your ins are already taken.

Re: Is there an audio interface with (also) usb AUDIO inputs?

PostPosted: Sat Jan 16, 2021 8:03 pm
by Sam Spoons
For an audio interface to work with your synth it would have to act as a USB Host device, while at the same time being a USB slave to the computer. I have never heard of one that would do that. CS70's answer will work fine though.

Welcome to the forum BTW :thumbup:

Re: Is there an audio interface with (also) usb AUDIO inputs?

PostPosted: Sat Jan 16, 2021 9:09 pm
by Dniss
CS70 wrote:The limitation is not in Cakewalk, it'd be the same with any other DAW.
The synth "audio over USB" simply means that Windows sees the synth as a different interface (one that only happens to interface with the keyboard sound generation circuitry), and you can't use multiple interfaces at the same time to pass audio.

The solution is to use the analogue or digital outs of the synth and pass thru the interface.

You may need an interface with more input channels, if your ins are already taken.

Hi guys! How are u doing?
Thanks for the reply.

Yes I was planning to get a second audio card, my 18i20 inputs are maxed out (already :cry: )
. But I was wondering if such a device exists.

Thanks!

Re: Is there an audio interface with (also) usb AUDIO inputs?

PostPosted: Sat Jan 16, 2021 9:12 pm
by Murray B
I think it's possible to create an aggregate device in ASIO4ALL with both devices connected directly on usb and use this as the choice of inputs - there will probably be some latency corrections to do between the keyboard and the other usb device which may be a bit of a faff. However, if you are recording a whole piece in one go it might be worth a try.

This guy on the Youtube explains how to do it:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CwsZPeYFse4

Re: Is there an audio interface with (also) usb AUDIO inputs?

PostPosted: Sat Jan 16, 2021 9:27 pm
by N i g e l
Dniss wrote:Hi all,

I'm asking because many synthesizers nowadays often also offers USB audio out and with Cakewalk I can only use one audio USB driver at the time it would seem. And it's being used by my Focusrite Scarlett.

Cheers

I have exactly that problem with Cakewalk and was wondering if theres an app [like JACK audio] that could route from multiple audio interfaces and present itself to Cakewalk as 1 mega interface ?

Re: Is there an audio interface with (also) usb AUDIO inputs?

PostPosted: Sat Jan 16, 2021 9:28 pm
by N i g e l
Murray B wrote:This guy on the Youtube explains how to do it:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CwsZPeYFse4

Interesting, thanks !

Re: Is there an audio interface with (also) usb AUDIO inputs?

PostPosted: Sat Jan 16, 2021 9:58 pm
by Leopold63
Dniss wrote: ...my 18i20 inputs are maxed out (already :cry: )
.

Have you thought about an ADA8200 as a cheap way to expand your input count on your Scarlett (unless you have already done that!)?

- Leo

Re: Is there an audio interface with (also) usb AUDIO inputs?

PostPosted: Sat Jan 16, 2021 11:32 pm
by CS70
Dniss wrote:
Yes I was planning to get a second audio card, my 18i20 inputs are maxed out (already :cry: )
. But I was wondering if such a device exists.


A second audio card won't work (at the same time) for the same reason the interface built-in into the keyboard doesn't... but hasn't the 18i20 ADAT I/O ? In that case, you just need a converter (or even an an input only device like the Octopre if you don't plan to use outboard)

Just for clarity: you can _connect_ as many interfaces as you want, but you can just use one at a time as an audio source, at least with the driver models you normally want to use with a DAW. But there's no problems in having the interface attached per se. For example I have both the RME and a UAD Twin attached, the latter is mostly used to run plugins, but if I switch the DAW to it, it works just fine (but then I cannot record audio from the RME).

Re: Is there an audio interface with (also) usb AUDIO inputs?

PostPosted: Sat Jan 16, 2021 11:36 pm
by CS70
N i g e l wrote:
Dniss wrote:Hi all,

I'm asking because many synthesizers nowadays often also offers USB audio out and with Cakewalk I can only use one audio USB driver at the time it would seem. And it's being used by my Focusrite Scarlett.

Cheers

I have exactly that problem with Cakewalk and was wondering if theres an app [like JACK audio] that could route from multiple audio interfaces and present itself to Cakewalk as 1 mega interface ?

A few months ago someone claimed to have succeeded with a virtual mixer software.. I don't recall the name but a little search should find it the thread.

But frankly, with interfaces running dozens of channels available, the complication ain't worth the effort imho. One nice signal path, one good clock and things are neat and simple and leave you time to concentrate on the music. There's already enough stress in a normal session. Just my $.10 of course.

Re: Is there an audio interface with (also) usb AUDIO inputs?

PostPosted: Sun Jan 17, 2021 12:13 am
by James Perrett
The biggest problem with running multiple interfaces simultaneously is clocking. You need to make sure that they are all sampling at the same rate and synchronised to each other. Alternatively you need some way of doing a sample rate conversion in real time. It might be possible to design some kind of USB audio hub but it wouldn't be easy to do things properly.

I understand that ASIO4All attempts this but I don't think it can do any form of sample rate conversion so you need everything in sync to start with in order to avoid glitches.

Re: Is there an audio interface with (also) usb AUDIO inputs?

PostPosted: Sun Jan 17, 2021 2:00 pm
by N i g e l
CS70 wrote:But frankly, with interfaces running dozens of channels available, the complication ain't worth the effort imho

that wouldnt work because my other "soundcard" is the synthesizer internals.
Its a bit of a minor annoyance but when swapping between audio interface & synth digitals, I have to go to Cakewalk > preferences> devices, untick all the audio ins and outs & tick all the synth ins & outs !

The synth is an uptodate Yamaha and has fantastic PC integration [when its the only one], when that becomes more widespread, I can see the multiple USB audio thing becoming a problem that needs addressed.

James Perrett wrote:I understand that ASIO4All attempts this but I don't think it can do any form of sample rate conversion so you need everything in sync to start with in order to avoid glitches.

That makes sense.

Re: Is there an audio interface with (also) usb AUDIO inputs?

PostPosted: Sun Jan 17, 2021 2:58 pm
by merlyn
Dniss wrote:But I was wondering if such a device exists.

The short answer is no. If you want to use a synth's USB output as an audio input to a DAW you could connect the synth to the computer. Now you need software to combine the inputs and outputs of multiple soundcards like VB-Audio Voicemeeter Banana or Potato.

N i g e l wrote:I have exactly that problem with Cakewalk and was wondering if theres an app [like JACK audio] that could route from multiple audio interfaces and present itself to Cakewalk as 1 mega interface ?

You could try Banana or Potato linked above. I'd be interested in how well they work. I have successfully used JACK on Linux to have a synth with USB running alongside my main soundcard. It required using the command line and tweaking parameters so it's not entirely straightforward.

Re: Is there an audio interface with (also) usb AUDIO inputs?

PostPosted: Sun Jan 17, 2021 5:40 pm
by manwilde
Thanks for those links, next week I will test those apps to try to help a friend. He wants to use his old POD soundcard as a guitar fx along with his new MOTU.

Re: Is there an audio interface with (also) usb AUDIO inputs?

PostPosted: Sun Jan 17, 2021 5:57 pm
by CS70
N i g e l wrote:
CS70 wrote:But frankly, with interfaces running dozens of channels available, the complication ain't worth the effort imho

that wouldnt work because my other "soundcard" is the synthesizer internals.

What wouldn't work? The synth doesn't have any analogue or digital outs?

But yeah swapping is easy in Cakewalk so no big deal, it's no more work than putting up a different microphone for a regular instrument.