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Motu 828 direct monitoring issue.

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Motu 828 direct monitoring issue.

Postby Arpangel » Mon Jan 25, 2021 9:39 am

I’ve stopped using my PC and Behringer UMC1820 along with my Mac, now I only need to use the Mac and a Motu 828 MK11.
The Behringer was connected directly to my monitors, and I changed from direct monitoring to software playback just by turning the mix control on the front of the 1820.
But now I want to monitor with the Motu running through my mixer as it’s ergonomically more convenient for me, it’s an Allen & Heath Wizard 14-4-2, which is connected to my monitors via the monitor outputs.
The Motu has no mix control like the Behringer, as far as I can see, you have to change monitoring modes in the Motu mixer or in your DAW, which is a pain, I can’t see how you could do this from the front panel of the Motu.

:think:
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Re: Motu 828 direct monitoring issue.

Postby Hugh Robjohns » Mon Jan 25, 2021 11:16 am

If you're monitoring via a mixer then you have no need of direct monitoring via the interface.

Sources feed the mixer, the mixer feeds the interface, for recording. And the interface outputs feed the mixer for monitoring. Simples.

If some sources go direct to the interface because you don't have enough input channels on the mixer then you'll either need to live with the slightly increased latency of routing through the computer, get a bigger (or additional) mixer, or come up with a different arrangement of connections that works with your current equipment.

At the end of the day, there's the way we might wish to work, there's the gear we can afford and have available, and there's what that gear can actually do... Only the last two are relevant in real life! ;-)
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Re: Motu 828 direct monitoring issue.

Postby CS70 » Mon Jan 25, 2021 11:29 am

Arpangel wrote:I’ve stopped using my PC and Behringer UMC1820 along with my Mac, now I only need to use the Mac and a Motu 828 MK11.
The Behringer was connected directly to my monitors, and I changed from direct monitoring to software playback just by turning the mix control on the front of the 1820.
But now I want to monitor with the Motu running through my mixer as it’s ergonomically more convenient for me, it’s an Allen & Heath Wizard 14-4-2, which is connected to my monitors via the monitor outputs.
The Motu has no mix control like the Behringer, as far as I can see, you have to change monitoring modes in the Motu mixer or in your DAW, which is a pain, I can’t see how you could do this from the front panel of the Motu.

:think:

Yes, why direct-monitoring via the interface, when you already have the sources connected to the mixer? The whole mixer is your direct monitoring device :)

Or are still using the interface preamps/line ins together with the mixer?

In that case, the Motu must have as control panel in the computer. From that you should be able to enable direct monitoring and define where it goes (unless it defaults to something, like headphones out or mains out, not familiar with the interface).

Then you take these outs and connect them to the inputs of two mono (or one stereo) mixer channels, and you use the mixer routing to bring the signal wherever you want.
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Re: Motu 828 direct monitoring issue.

Postby Arpangel » Mon Jan 25, 2021 11:30 am

Hugh Robjohns wrote:If you're monitoring via a mixer then you have no need of direct monitoring via the interface.

Sources feed the mixer, the mixer feeds the interface, for recording. And the interface outputs feed the mixer for monitoring. Simples.

If some sources go direct to the interface because you don't have enough input channels on the mixer then you'll either need to live with the slightly increased latency of routing through the computer, get a bigger (or additional) mixer, or come up with a different arrangement of connections that works with your current equipment.

At the end of the day, there's the way we might wish to work, there's the gear we can afford and have available, and there's what that gear can actually do... Only the last two are relevant in real life! ;-)

Thanks Hugh, I’m OK with the mixer, more than enough inputs.
Taken on board about what you say about not needing direct monitoring from the Motu in this situation :thumbup:
What I am worried about is the monitoring section on the A&H, it’s only Main Mix, and 2 Track.
This could lead to issues when overdubbing in my DAW, I can listen to previously recorded tracks coming back from the computer, but I "do not" want to route them to the main mix as that’ll be carrying my new overdubs, I normally use a group or an Alt out to listen to what’s been recorded, and route that to the monitor, but that’s not possible on the A&H.
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Re: Motu 828 direct monitoring issue.

Postby Hugh Robjohns » Mon Jan 25, 2021 11:37 am

There is a very old-school concept of planning an installation in advance of purchasing the equipment, and buying the products that are fit for the intended purpose....

In your case, the obvious solution is to record from a couple of the group outputs and monitor from the main stereo mix bus. That way you can route recording tracks to the group and the group to both the DAW record side , and the stereo mix for direct monitoring, while DAW replays go direct to the mix.

You're now going to tell me that you use all the group outs to drive effects chains... and I'm going to reply that, in that case, you need a second mixer which combines the A&H mix out with the DAW replay tracks to provide your independent monitoring chain.
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Re: Motu 828 direct monitoring issue.

Postby Arpangel » Mon Jan 25, 2021 11:55 am

Hugh Robjohns wrote:There is a very old-school concept of planning an installation in advance of purchasing the equipment, and buying the products that are fit for the intended purpose....

In your case, the obvious solution is to record from a couple of the group outputs and monitor from the main stereo mix bus. That way you can route recording tracks to the group and the group to both the DAW record side , and the stereo mix for direct monitoring, while DAW replays go direct to the mix.

You're now going to tell me that you use all the group outs to drive effects chains... and I'm going to reply that, in that case, you need a second mixer which combines the A&H mix out with the DAW replay tracks to provide your independent monitoring chain.

I bought this mixer before our basement rebuild, and consolidation with the acoustic room, so requirements have changed slightly, this monitoring issue wasn’t a problem before, and no live overdubbing was taking place.
I like the mixer, I’m just going to have to find a work-around.
OK, the four groups feed inputs 1234 on the Motu, the main out feeds inputs 5/6, the "Matrix" outputs on the mixer provide two extra outputs to the Motu, allowing me to track 8 separate sources. So far so good.
One thing bothers me, I can record the new tracks via the groups, but how do I hear those tracks? I can’t route the groups to the monitor section on the mixer, that’ll be on main mix, monitoring the computer return channels.
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Re: Motu 828 direct monitoring issue.

Postby Hugh Robjohns » Mon Jan 25, 2021 11:58 am

Simple answer is, it's the wrong tool for that specific way of working.

Do you really need the ability to track 8 sources individually and simultaneously?

I appreciate the mixer was bought prior to this reorganisation. As my dear old Nana used to say, you 'have to cut your coat to fit your cloth'...
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Re: Motu 828 direct monitoring issue.

Postby Hugh Robjohns » Mon Jan 25, 2021 12:08 pm

Arpangel wrote:OK, the four groups feed inputs 1234 on the Motu, the main out feeds inputs 5/6, the "Matrix" outputs on the mixer provide two extra outputs to the Motu, allowing me to track 8 separate sources. So far so good.

Er... Nope, I doubt it!

The matrix outputs are (normally) derived from a sub-mix of the groups and main outs. That being the case, the Matrix outputs can only ever carry the same signal as one (or more) of your groups or main mix outputs (or a mixed combination of them).

You certainly can't track 8 separate things that way.

The channel direct outputs are provided for tracking individual sources...
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Re: Motu 828 direct monitoring issue.

Postby Arpangel » Mon Jan 25, 2021 12:24 pm

Hugh Robjohns wrote:Simple answer is, it's the wrong tool for that specific way of working.

Do you really need the ability to track 8 sources individually and simultaneously?

I appreciate the mixer was bought prior to this reorganisation. As my dear old Nana used to say, you 'have to cut your coat to fit your cloth'...

Tracking eight sources, thought it may come in handy, it’s not a necessity.
I’ll just have to revert to my normal way of using this mixer, and not use the monitoring section, I’ll use the Motu/DAW for that purpose, it would have been good to use the mixer for monitoring, as it’s just more convenient location wise.
I’ll use the Matrix outs as extra FX sends.
I love this mixer, it’s got a great sound, and EQ, and just a good feel.
Thanks a lot. Hugh, you’ve pointed out a few things that my brain couldn’t see.

PS

May as well use the 1820 not the Motu with this se-up, less hassle with monitoring, and the UMC is class compliant.
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